Podcast Season 3 Episode 3


Title: Flying Pigs

In this episode: We try to bury the news, which includes the release of Debian 6.0 and KDE 4.6, along with some Android rumours. Hear how we faired with our challenge to contribute to an open source project, and share our discoveries from the last two weeks.

What's in the show:

  • Discovery of the week:
  • News:
      Debian 6.0 has been released, and it's got a spaceship theme! KDE 4.6 has been released and it doesn't have a spaceship theme. Then Mozilla team has revealed in its roadmap that it's planning to ship 4 major releases of Firefox this year. And there are rumours that Android 3.0, codenamed Honeycomb, may only be destined for tablet devices.
  • You Dare Us:
    • Sorry, did you say something? Hear our pitiful excuses and vapourous promises to do better next time.
  • In The Dock:
      It's Andrew's turn, and he's going to convince you to switch to Gnome.
  • Open Ballot: will you attend a Linux event this year?

  • Special offer: subscribe to Linux Format magazine and save up to 40%

Presenters: Andrew Gregory, Efrain Hernandez-Mendoza, Graham Morrison and Mike Saunders.

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Theme Music by Brad Sucks.

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Your comments

Yay! (cough)

This is perfect for listening to in the bed (I'm sick). I hope you fixed Efrains mic this time though. He said some interesting stuff last time, but I couldn't hear half of it :(


Dumb Link

In The Dock:

It's Andrew's turn, and he's going to convince you to switch to Gnome.

Did anyone check the Gnome Link i guess not it's set to KDE web page.

Re:Dumb Link

That was my sad attempt at humour. I didn't actually think anyone clicked on those links!

Thanks Graham

The "gnome link" made my day. And Andrew, I refuse to be convinced! ;)

su - <user>

su <user> leaves you in the current directory
su - <user> takes you to the home directory of <user>

Which give you access to that users path etc.

The Gnome link made my

The Gnome link made my day.
As to what I would want out of a Linux event, well after giving it some thought I've come to this. Take away most of the sitting in chairs and look at someone exclaiming exactly how wonderful their code is and how it will better everyones life. Instead of that I would like to see it becoming a bit more personal with a bit of a workshop feel, in the way that people get to use it while having the creator/s showing the people how it works and help them to notice the improvements. That would make it, I think, more accessible to people that isn't tech geeks.
Speaking of workshops, that in itself would be a pretty sweet event focus. Say some people bring a few computers and teach people things that would better the community, e.g. packaging, installing distribution's/package's(yes, another possible Linux user is always an improvement).
Really everything that teaches something to someone is worth it to me. Preferably it would be in my town sins I cant afford to go much further away.

Good stuff

Enjoyed your podcast again. I said last time I would be too busy to attend a linux meeting - but I will make an exception for a Linux Format meet-up in Bath. My ideal meeting would be a pub-meet up with a good mix of beer, chat and linux (in about those quantities).

I also posted two open ballots back that the only person I'd unsucessfully converted to linux (my sister) due to compatibility problems with microsoft word, has become the First Person to actually ask me to 'fix her laptop with linux', after a year of windows xp and no virus checker.

BTW mission buritos are great - we've had two in Oxford and Reading for a while.

Re Su/Su - & OpenSource Events

I'm not sure that Fedora is doing anything inherently wrong...

su (optional_username-Default_root) = Switch User
su - (optional_username-Default_root) = Switch User as if you logged in *as them*

Hence, if you tried to run an app as root, and needed something from the .bashrc or .profile, then you would have needed the -, it could, however, be something weird in SELinux?

With regards to the OpenSource Events, UCubed is like an Unconference (similar to OggCamp or any of the many barcamps being run around the world), but is all workshop-styled, so at the last one, we did a little packaging (although we picked a really hard target, so we all failed to make a .deb), we did some bug triaging and I gave a talk about getting involved in Open Source.

I also attended OggCamp last year, and again, it was a Unconference-style event. There was a talk-proposal system that was available from the morning of the first day. People voted on which talks they wanted to see, and the more popular talks got the larger rooms.

As I was involved in the crew at OggCamp and one of the organisers of UCubed, I think it's a bit of an understatement to say there was no planning involved - even just getting a venue or advertising the event takes some planning!

Frankly, I see Unconference style events being a much closer fit in the Open Source world than traditional conferences, where the meritocracy effect influences whether you'll watch people talking again at later events or not! That's not to say that if LugRadio Live came back, I'd not go to it, I most definitely would... (if only for the gong-a-thong), but Unconferences make a lot more sense where a disparate group of developers and community meet up, and I hope to see more smaller events (like UCubed) appearing over the next few years!

With regards to the event calendars, there are more than a few, like you mentioned, and some are more complete than others. See, for example, geekery.in, fossevents.org, lanyrd.com and joind.in, upcoming.org and (sadly) facebook.

Thanks again for the exceptional plug you gave UCubed, we'd be glad to see someone from the Lxf/Tuxradar team there, if someone can make it? :)

Does Unity have a .deb

Wanted to try Unity on Ubuntu 10.04

Thanks guys

I waited almost a lifetime to hear you pronounce Gnome "Nome"

What Th...!

I click on the Gnome link and was taken to a kde.org.

Who set that up?

Hey.....One more thing. Caught it.

Yes, I did catch the one more thing this time and I also got Firebird correct but the rest was news to me.

Graham, please screw your head back on and fix that link.

Me go away from nokia


Damn, that sucks. Hello android. Crap needs to be jailbroken, but oh well, what else is there, vista phone? LoL

Delicious Burritos

Great podcast as usual. Thanks for the heads up about Mission Burritos opening in Bristol, went down there today with eight friends and found them indeed delicious. Severely tempted to show up on Saturday and talk to Efrain - I'm from New Mexico, after all.

Qt is...

in trouble but not dead, because it's cross-platform and that means it will also work in wp7. If Nokia throws Qt away as they did meego then they are nothing but fools.

P.S.: One very competent user here in the forum once said, regarding big corporations and open-source products, something like: step away, slowly, slowly...now, start running. He war right :D

P.S.2: :D


open ballot

what will Qt's future be, due to recent associations from Nokia.


Is Meego a project with functional legs now that Nokia jumped to a lifeboat(arguable)?

you dare us

WP7 tuxradar podcast reader (open source, obviously)

No - Perth isn't the most isolated city!

As a resident of Perth, Western Australia, I've also always thought of myself as living in the most isolated city in the world. But according to Wikipedia, it's the second most isolated city (Auckland, New Zealand is *14*km more isolated!)

su -

su - <user> gives you the FULL <user> environment ($HOME, $USER, $PATH) etc. it effectively logs you in as <user>

su <user> just gives you _some_ of the privelages of <user>

Not starting with the news

Not starting with the news is just WRONG.

RE: No - Perth isn't the most isolated city!

Yay, I live in the most isolated city on Earth. I moved there from London...

Crunchbang logo

Hola merelyjim
Muchas gracias por tus buenos deseos.
I can only say that, I will try to come up with a logo design that does justice to the Crunchbang project. Te lo prometo amigo.

To: William Judd
Yes, the burritos were very good but, the only problem was that the guacamole was plain and it lacked chiles, but anyway, great value for money.

contributing to an open source project

maybe you could update the kismet package in debian/ubuntu from the 2008 version to the 2011 version

In the dock

I came up with an idea for "In the Dock" (-ish). Maybe, you could try to convince everyone of something completely crazy. For example, you could try to convince newbees to linux to use Gentoo as their first distro.

Just an idea

linux event

thanks for putting me online.
You might miss the point of my last comment

Is it really necessary to attend a Linux event.

Whenever I use Linux I can access IRC, forums, mailinglists, blogs, even podcasts.... all about Linux.
An event might only have a nice socializing component. Thus a LUG in the next pub close to home might be nice. However move around half the world to visit a conference which does not provide more info then what you can get from Foss community online.

bad CO2 footprint and well.......... think about the children. ;)

Hopefully to clarify SU queries

The distinction between su <user> and su - <user> is subtle for newbies; one thing that long confused me was what the acronym is:
su stands for "substitute user" (not as I long thought "super user"). The option "-" invokes su in it" "full form" so that the (substituted) users' environment is imported as well. As mentioned above, this means your path and environment variables are included, so that you are effectively logging in "as" that user, not just performing commands with that user's login credentials. So your current directory /becomes/ that of the user, and your entire environment /becomes/ that of the user. Without a <user> option, the command will assume you mean to login as root, which is commonly how it is used in fact. However the caveat applies: ALWAYS BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU DO AS ROOT. You are elevating your privilege to do useful things, but you can totally destroy your system with a careless "rm -rf *" command. My advice is to /always/, /always/ re-read the command you have typed in (if you are root) and think about what you expect the outcome to be. If you aren't sure, try the command first as a "mere mortal" login, and if possible take advantage of both "extra verbiage" if there's a -v option to the command. Some commands even have a "just tell me what you are going to do, without actually doing it" option (particularly in the case of partitioning commands fdisk, e2fsck and friends)

One final suggestion: if you can obtain the package "sudo", you may find this a little safer, though it requires a bit of setting up, and you have to use the visudo command to establish who's allowed to use it, I understand this package has some extra functionality and security that "vanilla" su doesn't have.

As always YMMV. Best regards,

There is no such thing as a problem
without a gift for you in its hands

Oh yeah. follow up on packaging

Years ago, I had to install an rpm on my Red Hat 9 system, it was gnupg (iirc). I obtained the source-rpm and just used the rpm "build package" options. I forget most of the details now, but I was pleasantly surprised to discover that I wound up with a personally compiled and neatly packaged rpm (executable) which was installable using rpm again.

I suppose something reasonably small and well-supported (and standard!)package like gnupg would be ideal as a starting point for attempting to build - rather than say, gcc (I recall trying that too, but can't recall exactly what the result was because it took about half a day to compile, though I think it also worked. Must check). :)

The nice thing about using a small and well established package like gnupg is that usually documentation is quite comprehensive, and there's support easily available through web links, IRC, etc.

The other thing is to pick something that you will actually use once it's done ... everybody uses gnupg, right?

What?! You're not using gnupg?! Oh well...

The point is to pick a package that's small enough and hopefully self-contained enough not to have to download lots of dependency libraries, that won't take your machine 10+ hours to compile, but will be significant enough to not feel like a "Hello World" example.

Sorry I don't have much experience on the .deb side, or ubuntu based package management, but I'd lay odds you can do something similar.

It's important if you're hosting a barcamp or LUG-based intro to spend enough time finding examples that fall into this sort of category, otherwise you may find the newbies just totally bamboozled ("why would I want to compile my own version of gpg?" "Answer: security, integrity of your own personally compiled software!"). So organizers of such events would do well to take a little time to ACTUALLY DO THE EXAMPLES before subjecting new users to them.

Preparation is 90% of the work. It's not exactly smoke and mirrors, but everybody can appreciate magic when it is done in such a way as to make it LOOK easy!

Hope this is helpful,
as always, love and big props to the guys and to all.

There is no such thing as a problem
without a gift for you in its hands

In the Dock

I have an idea for the "In the Dock" section.
Convince me that open source software is safer than closed software.


There is no such thing as a problem
without a gift for you in its hands

With Open Source software you are permitted to READ the CODE, and you can COMPILE it FOR YOURSELF, ON YOUR OWN MACHINE. If that doesn't satisfy you that open source can be safer than something you HAVE TO ASSUME WAS CORRECTLY COMPILED, AND YOU CANNOT READ THE SOURCE CODE ITSELF, then you simply don't get it. Write your own software.

Or pay someone lots of money to do that. You still have to trust them. Good luck.


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