Thanks to those following AudioScope.sh...

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Thanks to those following AudioScope.sh...

Postby Bazza » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:23 am

Hi guys and gals...
(Apologies for any typos.)

Just took a look at my AudioScope.sh in the Programming forum and noticed 3 DLs.
Here:-

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15868&start=60

I am surprised after all this time that anyone is still interested at all. It is getting more difficult to complete the said project as I am now closing the gap to 67.

Over the years since its proof on concept inception, (in January 2013?), this has become one of the strangest shell, (bash), scripts of all time.
I am betting no-one has ever tried such a major task where HW and SW have to be created and used using the Mic/Ear sockets.

To use it as it stands without any external major HW all that is needed if vertical calibration and DC is not required is a simple test lead.
This lead will be in the next version's Manual...
If DC is required an Arduino Diecimila Board is catered for and at least one method using a VCO down the Mic socket.

I would dearly love to know who DLed the latest version and their opinions, good or bad, along with any comments for improvements that could be made.

So THANK YOU to all who have followed this project and an even bigger THANK YOU to the Admin and Moderators who have allowed it to be _developed_ on here.

Barry...
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Re: Thanks to those following AudioScope.sh...

Postby Alex01UK » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:21 pm

Hi Baz. I've not looked at the Links, but what do you need from me to complete this project? RF & Electronics wise, in terms I understand. And I will ask Dad. He is 70 now nearly so very busy etc but will see what I can do for you. Will record his answer too and upload it to youtube etc for you...... I remember asking before on phone and he explained it all and bamboozled me and couldn't remember so asked him again next when face to face. And he was like, buy a Probe, and He's testing you, as a Pro Engineer should know. "There's no such way of making something complicatd simple." I remember him saying. I didn't realise \ know at the ime you were wanting a novice could do! rsvp deal?

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Re: Thanks to those following AudioScope.sh...

Postby Bazza » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:26 pm

Alex01UK wrote:Hi Baz. I've not looked at the Links, but what do you need from me to complete this project? RF & Electronics wise, in terms I understand. And I will ask Dad. He is 70 now nearly so very busy etc but will see what I can do for you. Will record his answer too and upload it to youtube etc for you...... I remember asking before on phone and he explained it all and bamboozled me and couldn't remember so asked him again next when face to face. And he was like, buy a Probe, and He's testing you, as a Pro Engineer should know. "There's no such way of making something complicatd simple." I remember him saying. I didn't realise \ know at the ime you were wanting a novice could do! rsvp deal?

73s & 88s d'Alex, G7 CGR.

I don't need any help with AudioScope as it is easy to create the necessary calibration gear to give up to 1V p-p in the vertical plane. It is a little more tricky after that but any reasonable voltage is possible within an accuracy of + or - 5% WITHOUT professional test gear. The horizontal plane is already calibrated and has been since very early in the project. The only difficult task is creating a counter style ADC for DC input through the mic socket. I already have CHOPPER and VCO nethods sewn up. The VCO is already coded for but will not allow for LF audio below 200Hz to DC. The CHOPPER method does but I haven't coded for it yet. These take serious time to work out and AudioScope is now in its 4th year
It ALL works under 'bash' from a single script now nearly 207,000 bytes in size and soon to be uploaded.

Your reference to RF was something not related to AudioScope at all however. Without ANY professional test gear how do you calibrate an RF probe into an RF Voltmeter along with its roll off curve up to say 1GHz from say 100KHz. One can assume you have a DC voltmeter, analogue or digital, as some kind of reference that might work at 100KHz. I still haven't worked it out after 15+ years. But then how often are RF voltmeters needed these days...
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Re: Thanks to those following AudioScope.sh...

Postby guy » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:14 am

Bazza wrote:Without ANY professional test gear how do you calibrate an RF probe into an RF Voltmeter along with its roll off curve up to say 1GHz from say 100KHz.


One obvious approach would be an RF diode, maybe with adjustable DC bias to its switching voltage ca. 0.7 V, then smooth and buffer to give a DC output. But how accurate could it be?
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Re: Thanks to those following AudioScope.sh...

Postby Bazza » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:09 pm

guy wrote:
Bazza wrote:Without ANY professional test gear how do you calibrate an RF probe into an RF Voltmeter along with its roll off curve up to say 1GHz from say 100KHz.


One obvious approach would be an RF diode, maybe with adjustable DC bias to its switching voltage ca. 0.7 V, then smooth and buffer to give a DC output. But how accurate could it be?


Exactly my point. If it was possible to obtain + or - 5% then fine, that is good enough. However not all RF stages run into 50/75 Ohms along the chain and frequencies high VHF and beyond are upset by stray puffage on their circuits from the probe. Plus the fact that a home brew device is near impossible to predict/calculate/determine the roll-off as the frequency increases. LF to HF is easy but high VHF and beyond has me stuck. I had thought about about an absorption wattmeter idea but to get one working at very small powers is beyond any scope of a kids project. So although I did create an AMIGA RF sniffer project, its big brother the RF voltmeter was out of the question.
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Re: Thanks to those following AudioScope.sh...

Postby guy » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:58 pm

A cleanly laid out circuit with sensibly chosen components would probably be stable and predictable enough up to a couple of MHz or so, which for some folks would surely be a useful extension beyond the audio range.
But yes, much above that and life gets more difficult.
Would be no harm in an FM radio project with an IF in that region.
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Re: Thanks to those following AudioScope.sh...

Postby Bazza » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:42 pm

Hi guy...

I did quote that LF to HF would be easy, where HF ends around 30MHz. Small puffages would not affect stages in such circuits to any great extent.
In an average FM receiver the IF is usually 10.7 MHz so well within the HF spectrum.

As soon as one enters the realm of UHF, say the 430MHz amateur band where current technology has 1st IFs anywhere in the LOW VHF region and signal voltages that needs to be tested then this was what I wanted the RF Voltmeter for. I had access to an HP Spec-An 9KHz to 26.5GHz and HP Sig Gen at the time but kids don't have these expensive luxuries and because I couldn't think of a way to calibrate the RF Probe its Voltmeter extension was abandoned.

CYA matey and thanks for the chat.

BTW were you one of the three who DLed the latest AudioScope.sh script?
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Re: Thanks to those following AudioScope.sh...

Postby Alex01UK » Sun May 21, 2017 6:20 pm

Hi Bazza. Saw my Dad today. Asked him about how to do this. Basically only one way. You have to calculate it yourself doing Dead Hard Sums...
No way of making something complicated simple. Sorry couldn't be of any more help.
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Re: Thanks to those following AudioScope.sh...

Postby Bazza » Mon May 22, 2017 10:50 am

Alex01UK wrote:Hi Bazza. Saw my Dad today. Asked him about how to do this. Basically only one way. You have to calculate it yourself doing Dead Hard Sums...
No way of making something complicated simple. Sorry couldn't be of any more help.

No probs, I already knew what the answer would be...

The maths is not the problem, I think I am slightly above average on that score. Besides high quality CAD applications can do all of the heavy lifting for the overall design, but does a 10 year old have the capability of working to CAD tolerances, especially PCBs? <- Rhetorical.

However one would have to specify every component required for the probe so that alone makes for an impossible kids level project.
And specific items may or may not be easily available in the open market, and if they are they will not be cheap!
So RF probe it will have to stay...

Thanks anyhow.

BTW the latest incarnation of 'AudioScope.sh' has an AF Spectrum Display up to 4KHz added. Python does the heavy FFT lifting as I have absolutely no idea how to do a Fast Fourier Transform in AWK. There is NOT one attempt at all on the WWW as a guide, so I suspect it is not at all straightforward. Complex numbers never are...
Why AWK? Because a default CygWin install does not have 'bc', 'dc', and/or ksh; only bash and awk. bash for integer maths, awk for flotaing point and other very basic maths functions.
Remember, (and nelz would back me up on this), I do a lot of research first to try and find this information before even attempting any project.

Early in AudioScope's development CygWin did not have 'hexdump' only 'od' but the latest version does. Am I going to alter AudioScope.sh?
No, not yet.
I have just done a very simple AWK, RMS of a signal, piece of code for AudioScope.sh ready for the next version.

All in a bash script with very few default utilities used too! Don't forget the escape code capabilities of the Terminal also!
I wonder if anything like this has been done before?

The current Version 0.65.00 will be uploaded sometime this week...

Anyhow thanks to those very few that follow AudioScope...
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