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Sexual division of labour
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andychannelle
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:08 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:18 am    Post subject: Sexual division of labour Reply with quote

Girls and women can be quite geeky, I think, but they need more inspiration, support (friends not being mean if they're caught reading a Jared Diamond book, for example) and time. Unfortunately, there's more cultural capital to be gained among one's peers as a girl from knowing how much Posh Spice weighs (answer: almost nothing), which member of Blue released his solo single first (answer: Craig (or something)), and the diameter of Nikki from Big Brothers thigh (answer: about the same as my index finger). And this starts very, very young.
My daughter is a dinosaur geek, but she keeps asking for Bratz dolls, which are big-headed, collagen lipped, nylon haired horrors that dress like hookers. But if we buy her a doll, she'll play with it for eight minutes and then go back to the DK Eyewitness Guide to Fossils or a toy brachiosaur. The geek-crushing aspect is that she can't talk about fossils or saurapods with her friends; what they have in common is Bratz. She can conform and become a chav-in-waiting, or become a geeky outcast.
Perhaps schools should stop pandering to fashion and teach basic Linnean taxonomy, latin and computer programming (even just a smidge of HTML) to allow children to acquaint themselves with their inner geek before it is snuffed out by Barbie, Hot Wheels (although Hot Wheels collectors can be geeks, for some reason), and the awful, awful Sugababes.


Question: Why do I suddenly sound like a Telegraph reader from Tunbridge Wells.
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jjmac
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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:32 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:32 am    Post subject: RE: Sexual division of labour Reply with quote

>>
Question: Why do I suddenly sound like a Telegraph reader from Tunbridge Wells.
>>

Now i'm wondering what a Telegraph reader from Tunbridge Wells sounds like Rolling Eyes


jm
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Vanders



Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:21 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:25 am    Post subject: RE: Sexual division of labour Reply with quote

Quote:
She can conform and become a chav-in-waiting, or become a geeky outcast.


I know which of those option I'd prefer (Caveat: I'm not a father). While kids attach enormous importance to social status while they're at school, we all know that it's pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. After the age of 16 (Or 18 if you were spody and did A levels), most of us don't ever see the people we went to school with. Suddenly getting a good job becomes more important than knowing what Ashlee and Andy did at the party on Saturday. Unless you're a chav, at any rate.

Anyway, as I understand it with my hilariously poor grasp of psychology, there is a real reason for at least some of the gender disparity: mens brains are better at abstract thought. Men tend to be introvert and women tend to be extrovert. That doesn't mean that women can't be introvert, or men can't be extrovert, but the statistical upshot is that any given man is more likely to be a geek than any given women.

There are women geeks. I can look around the office here and see women in technical roles, including several programers. Personally I'd like to see more women in IT, and far more education for both sexes. Teaching basic "geek" IT subjects such as systems theory, networking and programing would be a good start, coupled with some real encouragement for girls who show aptitude, would be a good start.
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Nigel
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:24 am    Post subject: RE: Sexual division of labour Reply with quote

As the father of a very untypical girl, I do know what Andy means. My daughter is probably considered a geek by many of her classmates; she says she wants to become a "fashion victim", but is still more interested in books & computer games than clothes, gossip etc. When she becomes an adult, her individuality will be a great asset, but as an almost-teenager it doesn't make for an easy ride at times. It takes great courage to stand out from your peers in the early days of secondary school.
All you can do is be supportive, and encourage her interests no matter where they lie.
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Rhakios
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:37 pm    Post subject: RE: Sexual division of labour Reply with quote

Hmm, I notice that most of the comments so far (well all of them really) have been about how to enable/encourage girls to be geeks. There have been none about how to get men to do the washing and ironing Wink
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M0PHP
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:23 pm    Post subject: Re: RE: Sexual division of labour Reply with quote

Rhakios wrote:
washing and ironing Wink


The what-now? Shocked
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Nigel
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:36 pm    Post subject: Re: RE: Sexual division of labour Reply with quote

Rhakios wrote:
Hmm, I notice that most of the comments so far (well all of them really) have been about how to enable/encourage girls to be geeks. There have been none about how to get men to do the washing and ironing Wink

Maybe that's because some of us do the washing & ironing already Wink
(I blame my years as a jobbing programmer when I moved around a lot and had to do my own washing & ironing or it didn't get done)
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jjmac
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:27 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Sexual division of labour Reply with quote

Rhakios wrote:
>>
There have been none about how to get men to do the washing and ironing
>>

What about the knitting Smile ?


jm
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Rhakios
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:04 pm    Post subject: Re: RE: Sexual division of labour Reply with quote

Nigel wrote:

Maybe that's because some of us do the washing & ironing already Wink
(I blame my years as a jobbing programmer when I moved around a lot and had to do my own washing & ironing or it didn't get done)


And those of us who live alone do so perforce.
But it doesn't help with the idle males of Rebecca's acquaintance. In fact I don't know of any way of getting those who won't to do housework: if it just piles up, they leave it, if they are forced to look like tramps, then they look like tramps, if things begin to smell, they open a window - and all because they know that in the end some fool will come along and do it all for them Mad

jjmac wrote:

What about the knitting Smile ?


You'll have to ask Marrea about that, I buy my wool pre-knitted. Smile
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GMorgan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:59 am    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Sexual division of labour Reply with quote

Washing and ironing are the same thing though. You throw the clothes in the machine then in the tumble drier. When the tumble drier is finished you hang them up before they've had a chance to crease. What creases there are drop out over time. QED
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jjmac
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:48 am    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Sexual division of labour Reply with quote

In anycase ...

Never believe what they say about 'wash-n-ware'. I tried that once, it's nie on impossible to get a pair of jeans off after a shower. And besides, people can give a person weird looks when your hanging around a clothes line soaking Rolling Eyes

edit: spell

jm


Last edited by jjmac on Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Nigel
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: RE: Sexual division of labour Reply with quote

Rhakios wrote:
...and all because they know that in the end some fool will come along and do it all for them Mad


You've met my family, then ? Yup, I'm the fool that comes along & does it all for them Laughing
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andychannelle
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:08 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:08 am    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Sexual division of labour Reply with quote

I did some ironing yesterday morning - mostly school uniforms - but my wife doesn't like it when I knit, because the results always look better than hers. This is something to do with being ambidextrous which gives you really even (and tight) tension, making everything look fabulous.

This thread is getting very camp isn't it?

Still, you go girlfriends...
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donoreo
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Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:49 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:41 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Sexual division of labour Reply with quote

I do my own washing and ironing for a few reasons:

1. My wife puts the heat too high on the dryer and shrinks things.
2. She cannot iron to my standards (I was in the Canadian Navy Reserve)

My wife is not a geek, but she does have her moments. I am hoping that at least one of my twin daughters that are on the way (they are at 32 weeks) will be.
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TheDoctor
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Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:02 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Sexual division of labour Reply with quote

donoreo wrote:
they are at 32 weeks.


Shouldn't that be 100000 weeks? But a good binary age for a geek, however you write it. Very Happy
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