This is good to see!

Discussion topics, Linux related - not requests for help

Moderators: ChrisThornett, LXF moderators

This is good to see!

Postby ggsinclair » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:30 pm

User avatar
ggsinclair
LXF regular
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:41 am
Location: Linlithgow, UK

RE: This is good to see!

Postby Rhakios » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:38 pm

I'd still like to know how they gather these statistics. I have noticed that Opera identifies itself as IE by default and you have to change the setting to get anything else, would most users bother? There is also the issue of people setting their browser's identity as IE to get around stupid website restrictions.
Until one knows the way these statistics are gathered, they are meaningless.
Bye, Rhakios
User avatar
Rhakios
Moderator
 
Posts: 7634
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:18 pm
Location: Midlands, UK

RE: This is good to see!

Postby ggsinclair » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:45 pm

Rhakios

Good point - but it raises the profile of Firefox and, ultimately, open source software.

That cant be a bad thing.

Cheers.

Gordon
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
User avatar
ggsinclair
LXF regular
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:41 am
Location: Linlithgow, UK

RE: This is good to see!

Postby Rhakios » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:58 pm

I can't help wondering if its profile isn't actually higher anyway.
Bye, Rhakios
User avatar
Rhakios
Moderator
 
Posts: 7634
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:18 pm
Location: Midlands, UK

RE: This is good to see!

Postby jjmac » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:44 am

Yes, unless info is provided on the gathering method(s) used, it does become meaningless. Promotion that results from researches that later are revealed to be erronous, or even doctored, can only have the reverse effect ultimatley. And so should be avoided.


jm
Last edited by jjmac on Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
jjmac
LXF regular
 
Posts: 1996
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:32 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

RE: This is good to see!

Postby linuxgirlie » Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:06 am

I agree, and would love to know how they collect them, are they looking at the browser online at any given time, or do you have to visit certain website?
My knowledge comes with no warranty...........

Server operating system designed for schools:http://www.linuxschools.com
linuxgirlie
LXF regular
 
Posts: 787
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:34 pm
Location: Kent...UK

RE: This is good to see!

Postby jjmac » Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:28 am

Yes, it sounds a little suspicous to me ... would sites that keep hit counts have info like that available to be botted. Or are they accessing a sites cookie files ???, or something ?


jm
http://counter.li.org
#313537

The FVWM wm -=- www.fvwm.org -=-

Somebody stole my air guitar, It happened just the other day,
But it's ok, 'cause i've got a spare ...
jjmac
LXF regular
 
Posts: 1996
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:32 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

RE: This is good to see!

Postby nelz » Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:11 am

A browser identifies itself with the USER_AGENT variable. This can be logged by the site. Cookies have nothing to do with it, they are stored by the browser, not the server.

It is indicative, but not too reliable. You can change the User-Agent a browser sends (spoofing) and sometimes have to to get lamely written sites to accept you. A proportion of the hits from IE are actually people using other browsers and spoofing.

The sites you use the gather the statistics also affect the results. msn.com will get a higher proportion of hits from IE than mozilla.org, this site or Slashdot.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." (Albert Einstein)
User avatar
nelz
Site admin
 
Posts: 8577
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:52 am
Location: Warrington, UK

Postby Cogar » Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:15 pm

Firefox is a good browser. Although I mildly prefer Konqueror, I still use Firefox for just this reason--I want people who run websites to know that people are using browsers other than IE. (I think Konqueror use is such a small percentage that it is typically ignored.) On the other hand, as Firefox use grows, so does its credibility to the general public. In turn, this could lead to more people switching.
Cogar
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:50 pm
Location: USA

Postby M-Saunders » Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:48 pm

You could use Konqueror, but set it to identify itself as Firefox -- two birds, one stone! :-)

M
User avatar
M-Saunders
LXF regular
 
Posts: 2893
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:14 pm

Postby nelz » Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:12 pm

Can IE spoof? Every time someone lets you near a Windows system, set IE to spoof as Firefox :)
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." (Albert Einstein)
User avatar
nelz
Site admin
 
Posts: 8577
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:52 am
Location: Warrington, UK

Postby M0PHP » Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:55 pm

Yep, to a certain extent, IE can spoof :)
User avatar
M0PHP
LXF regular
 
Posts: 737
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:40 am
Location: Bishop Auckland, County Durham, UK

Postby Nigel » Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:37 pm

Time to create a .reg file to carry around on my USB key, methinks :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
User avatar
Nigel
LXF regular
 
Posts: 1141
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:03 pm
Location: Gloucestershire, UK

Postby Cogar » Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:41 pm

M-Saunders wrote:You could use Konqueror, but set it to identify itself as Firefox -- two birds, one stone! :-)

M

Good idea--one that had not occurred to me for some reason. Thank you. :)
Cogar
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:50 pm
Location: USA

Re: RE: This is good to see!

Postby Rhakios » Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:29 pm

nelz wrote:A browser identifies itself with the USER_AGENT variable. This can be logged by the site. Cookies have nothing to do with it, they are stored by the browser, not the server.

It is indicative, but not too reliable. You can change the User-Agent a browser sends (spoofing) and sometimes have to to get lamely written sites to accept you. A proportion of the hits from IE are actually people using other browsers and spoofing.

The sites you use the gather the statistics also affect the results. msn.com will get a higher proportion of hits from IE than mozilla.org, this site or Slashdot.


The first bits of this post are rather my point. On several occasions I have noted that a fresh install of Opera will use IE for its identification, so any one who installs it and doesn't bother to change it (the vast majority of non-technical users) will be adding to the IE figures.
The again, how often have I changed my browsers ID because of some duff site, only to forget to change it back again for weeks.

It is especially when I bear in mind the number of people I speak to (non-linux users) who say they are using Firefox that I doubt these statistics.
Bye, Rhakios
User avatar
Rhakios
Moderator
 
Posts: 7634
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:18 pm
Location: Midlands, UK

Next

Return to Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests