Microsoft should be sued for what they say about Linux

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RE: WHO WANTS SECURITY WHEN YOUR SYSTEM IS NOT LAYMEN FRIEND

Postby M-Saunders » Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:30 pm

Now now!

1. The foot print is the official Gnome logo -- not the best choice, perhaps, but distros are free to change it. And many, such as Ubuntu and Novell, do!

2. Hehe, interesting point :-)

3. 99% of commands you regularly type at the shell prompt are lowercase, so it's not a problem. The occasional app with mixed lower and uppercase characters is usually a graphical app, which you'll be launching from a menu/icon anyway.

4. It's true that there are some crazily named programs around. But they're developer's own titles -- many distros change them to 'Word processor' or 'Calculator' now.

And regarding the last point, it's better to have a system that's secure <B>now</B>, but still needs some ease-of-use work, than the other way round. As Linux becomes more usable on novices desktops, it's important to have security in place.

Would it be better if the Linux community made a super-easy but grossly insecure OS, so that millions switched only to be plagued by the same problems they suffered in Windows? Methinks not...

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Re: WHO WANTS SECURITY WHEN YOUR SYSTEM IS NOT LAYMEN FRIEND

Postby A-Wing » Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:40 pm

jayasamraj wrote:Before you guys sue Micro$oft, you should be sued. For...

1. Using a Foot Print as your theme/logo/mark or whatever sh*t you call it. Why do you show a foot for your users??? :evil:


Would you say the same of monty python?

2. Showing a Red Hat symbol resembling a dacoit of the 19th Century. Are you planning to loot your users? :cry:


Its a damn hat, similar freakyness could be said about melted stain glass windows.

3. Still relying of type case sensitivity for all your commands. Do you want your users even to remember the type case of your commands ? :idea:


With GUI users don't have to type commands so no issue. If they are CLI users then they should be used to the power that case sensitivity gives.

4. The most punishment should be awarded for naming your applications as gimp, gamp, gump, gemp, gomp or gnu, gnooo, gkooo, gpooo, ghooo, or gasdfl, gioaserf, gq29314, g089728951. Just give up this G. English is having enough of Gs. We just cant remember those gumps. :lol:


Actually there are more programs that start with a K than a G. Its better than every program stating Win or MS. In fact in my Applications list under Gnome only 7 programs start with G.

WHO WANTS SECURITY WHEN YOUR SYSTEM IS NOT LAYMAN FRIENDLY

Dont say you dont want Laymen to use your system. Most of the Computers in this world are used by Laymen.


My customers and I would say that it is very Laymen friendly if you match the right distro to the right person. This in turn is getting easier as X and its desktop environments mature.
At the end of the day we are happy with it, if you don't want to use it don't bother, there are pleanty of people who do want to.
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Re: RE: WHO WANTS SECURITY WHEN YOUR SYSTEM IS NOT LAYMEN FR

Postby nelz » Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:06 pm

M-Saunders wrote:4. It's true that there are some crazily named programs around.


Like "Outlook Express". How is anyone supposed to know that is an email program from its name?
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." (Albert Einstein)
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RE: Re: RE: WHO WANTS SECURITY WHEN YOUR SYSTEM IS NOT LAYME

Postby M-Saunders » Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:11 pm

Indeed. PowerPoint? To what power does it point? Excel -- well, a pun on 'cell' at least. Internet Explorer should really be WWW Explorer (with some rudimentary FTP thrown in) :-)

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RE: Re: RE: WHO WANTS SECURITY WHEN YOUR SYSTEM IS NOT LAYME

Postby A-Wing » Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:53 pm

Access is a contradiction if ever I heard one. :)
Shouldn't Internet Explorer be named Broken Mosaic or Mosaic Beta or something
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Postby M0PHP » Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:58 pm

And then there is Microsoft Works, which is simply a contradiction! :lol:
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Postby linuxgirlie » Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:16 pm

I must say I have just put in place (as a few on here know) a Linux suite in my school with 20 clients, this room is completely free for teachers to book for thier classes. It has been in a term now (about 6 weeks!?!) and nobody, and I mean NOBODY has said anything about it being Linux!!

I am now givening out cd's by the bucket load and because of cost (not my favourite ;)) I am now giving about ubuntu packs free from the site. To be honest 'laymen' want something to just work, they don't care about name, icons or logos.
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Postby shifty_ben » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:34 am

Its interesting to hear the number of people under the misonception that Linux is entirely CLI, very few outside the Linux world seem to be able to grasp that GLIs are available. Personally I prefer to use a GUI but have a console open for many of the tasks I do.
I have to say I have never wanted Linux not to be case sensitive, that just makes things too complicated, theres too much risk of overwriting files with ones of te same name but a different case. I would hope everybody would check before confirming an overwrite but there it is not everybody does. In terms of user friendliness linux still has some way to go, but even now its not bad. M$s systems are suppossed to be simple and easy to use, but I am frequently being asked to come round and fix a virus, or configure some settings they don't understand, so whats the difference?? The difference is if you do get stuck on Linux you can find a worlds worth of advice, hell google has a search dedicated to Linux.
I know that users I have converted to Linux have struggled at first, with the most frequent question being Wheres my C: Drive, ive lost all my files!!! but once they learn the ways of Linux most of them have said howmuch easier it is, and how nice it is not to crash every 30 minutes or so.

In my opinion people who complain that Linux is not User Friendly either are using the wrong distribution for them, or havent looked into the variety of options available. Even Windows was not user friendly the first time you ever used it, it takes time to learn how to use a different operatign system.
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Postby RD » Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:01 am

>>Even Windows was not user friendly the first time you ever used it, it takes time to learn how to use a different operatign system.

Did not know it ever was with all the crashes and virus and other nasty things, user friendly ? ive seen rottweilers more user friendly lol

P.s

Shifty_ben

Seems im quoting you alot dont take it personnel mate ;)
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Postby shifty_ben » Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:23 am

Lol thats true, I suppose user friendly was the wrong word to use, I guess the Phrase I wanted was easy to understand, easy to use when it lets you, a sh*t the rest of the time.

No worries mate I don't take much personally, being a network administrator kinda stops you fromd oing that, and besides you have made some good points. Still don't know how I forgot about Xandros!!
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Postby Lejon » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:14 pm

MS Windows, user friendly?
A friend With Windows XP box, that had gotten unusable was adviced to do a compleat reinstall.
So he did.
Finaly he called me, saying he cant even use the clean install of Windows XP Home.
Even I thought that was strange. I had not used Windows for years myself.
(at the time I used Windows you actuly needed to do something stupid to get virus.)
I asked what happend, and he said his computers only restart all the time.

This turned out to be MS Blazter or whatever..
Infecting the computer without the user doin anything else but connecting to internet.
Rebooting the computer within a few seconds after boot.
Infected the computer only minutes after connecting with clean install.
And the patch then, hidden away in some messy knowlage base.
Windows Update barly had time to start up, before computer rebooting.
*sigh*
I finaly managed to solv it, by tracking down and killing/deleting the virus manualy.
And downloading the patch, to USB MSD. and reinstall with the patches.

Did it end here? NO!
The stupid so called patch, had bugs in it *sigh*
Making his system unstable in other ways.

To this day, he seams to still constantly having trubble with his computer.
Ofcourse he is a "commoner" that dose not know/care much about how computer works.
He just wants a "Userfirendly" system, that works.

So why is he not using Linux?
Simple awnser.. He only uses the computer for games, among them, games that is not suported by Cedega or Wine.

Infact, I would imagen that is most peoples reason for keeping Windows!

MS has been sued for Monopolising with Browsers, Mediaplayers, and so on.
But what would be realy needed, is to sue them to monopolising and tieing up Game's developers to DirectX
and only release it under Windows.

It dosent realy matter much what lies and twisted statistic that put out about Linux vs. Windows.
The fact that thay do it, shows that thay are scared!
And thay know Games is the main thing keeping many users at ther feet.

Thay inprision ther users!
It is not about false advertising.
It's about all the same basic things that was compromised, during the 40's!
I am the one you thought I was! Just not the way, you expected...
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Postby linuxgirlie » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:43 pm

I always suggest tuxgames.com, version 5.0 of cedega is out soon and fingers crossed it will support more games....but I won't hold my breath!!
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RE: WHO WANTS SECURITY WHEN YOUR SYSTEM IS NOT LAYMEN FRIEND

Postby ggreaves » Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:13 pm

At least we have a command line that functions, properly with extensive switches to cover all and sundry. Windows is not even a proper dumb down OS like OS X (no offence Mac Fans). Vista is suppose to put it on par with OS X, it will only be in looks and not performance or purpose. Remember its not NT underneath OS X.
Who wants security when your system is not layman friendly? DOH! I thought that was Micro$oft who have now turned their hands at security after burying their heads in the sand for how many years.... There must be some sort of mind altering subliminal messages in XP, that made you forget all about the release of XP SP2 and all users being forced to have the upgrade a few months after. A complete (well almost) lock down of XP with users reporting problems using the software they've used for donkey years, dail-up connections no longer working and more.
Don't get caught in the FUD of Get the facts free your mind and cpu... use linux :)
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Postby shifty_ben » Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:20 pm

This turned out to be MS Blazter or whatever..
Infecting the computer without the user doin anything else but connecting to internet.



Sadly that is a story i have heard too may times before, I remember the good old days of Win 3.11 when it was limited but usable, after that it went severely down hill. Games are definitely a key hold for M$, however it will not always be that way. There is already a company porting windoze games to Linux, OK so you have to pay for the games, but then you do for the windoze version and companies are not going to port if its to open source, they want to make money.
http://www.linuxgamepublishing.com/

More companies are beginning to create Linux games too, they have finally realised that there is a market for this, especially now that countries such as China are predominantly using *Nix based OS's Take for example Unreal Tournament, both Windoze and Linux versions are available.
Admittedly not every game will be usable under Linux, I certainly don't see m$ deliberately porting Linux versions, however even if you run Windoze not every game will run, you either need a newer version of the OS, an update you don't want, or even worse XP simply wont run your old Win98 game

Once users are made aware that there is a more stable operating system, that will run amny of their games, the change will come, and as rightly said by Lejeon the only reason for face the facts is M$ are scared. it was not all that long ago that they denied the existence of Linux, Now they simply try to suggest that M$ is the better option. Why this change? simple because they realise that Linux is now a real threat to their market share and they will do anything to stop that.

Incidentally did anyone find it unbelievably funny that M$ were so convinced the Software Patent Law would pass in Africa that they bought all the Patents before it did, and then the Bill was rejected? :lol: [/quote]
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Re: RE: Re: RE: WHO WANTS SECURITY WHEN YOUR SYSTEM IS NOT L

Postby ollie » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:32 am

M-Saunders wrote:Excel -- well, a pun on 'cell' at least.
M


Just some history Mike, Excel stands for "Ex-L" as in Ex-Lotus 1-2-3. The Lotus 1-2-3 developer (sorry can't remember names that far back :lol: ) wanted to include some new features and was told no. He walked, asked Microsoft if they wanted a spreadsheet and they immediately hired him.

The same as MS-DOS wasn't developed by Bill Gates - it was originally Q-DOS written over night to print some results out on a mini. IBM wanted Q-DOS but he wouldn't sell to IBM so they gave MS the money - $50,000 - to buy Q-DOS and rename it MS-DOS. Bill is smart and got a contract that all IBM PC's would have MS-DOS or it's derivatives installed when sold. That's one reason for Windows XP backwards DOS compatibility. IBM have finally got out of that contract - sold PC division to Lenovo. History is :? :?
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