Suse 9.3

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Re: RE: Suse 9.3

Postby overflow » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:20 am

nelz wrote:Using a download distro doesn't necessarily mean you contribute nothing. Even if you don't give money, and many people do, there is a far more valuable commodity that the volunteer distros could use, a little of your time.

Quite. I was commenting on those who download and contribute nothing. I wasn't implying they were the same thing.

fingers99 wrote:c.apt-get is a far better package management tool than YaST ever was

YaST is just a wrapper around RPM.
fingers99 wrote:d.There simply are not enough packages built as SuSE rpms.

There are a huge number of packages included in the distro. If you want more, they are frequently available as SuSE RPMs now. If not, then it is time to start building.
fingers99 wrote:f. Once SuSE became a plc the support started to become snotty and not so good......

I've only once used the support line and they were quick to answer and very helpful.

On the whole, commercial involvement in SuSE has raised the quality and given focus to solving specific problems. SuSE 9.3, for example, is great for mobile support.

Commercial involvement gives Linux legitimacy and makes h/w manufacturers think twice about not providing Linux drivers - or at least supplying documentation so they can be written.

The involvement of companies like IBM, Sun, Novell and, of course RedHat are vital to the spread of Linux.
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Many Thanks

Postby BillBones » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:20 am

Just a quick note to thank you all for your comments, looks like I will buying the boxed set and take my first steps to the new world of Linux. know doubt I will be back with more questions.

Thanks

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RE: Many Thanks

Postby Rhakios » Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:39 pm

If you are thinking of spending money and you can afford to leave it for a month or so, then I would do so. SuSE 10 Open version is in late beta now and this means there is likely to be a full commercial release in the near future. There are few things more annoying than lashing out some money, only to find that something newer (and perhaps better) comes out a few weeks later.
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RE: Many Thanks

Postby A-Wing » Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:48 pm

SUSE 10 Beta 4 has been released today, RC1 due out on the 9th, finial some time towards the end of this month
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Version 10

Postby BillBones » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:53 am

Once again, thanks there is no hurry here just wanted to get started, sure I can wait for a month. I can spend my time sorting out Windows Pro.

Looking forward to installing and testing it out. Have burnt a CD from an image from the mag but could not get access to my data on the drives.

Will keep an eye on the forum. :shock:

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RE: Version 10

Postby nelz » Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:57 am

Data on your Windows partitions? These should have been set up by the installer, but you are not the first to complain that they weren't. You should be able to set them up from YaST.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." (Albert Einstein)
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Re: RE: Suse 9.3

Postby ollie » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:47 am

fingers99 wrote:I gave up on SuSE for 5 reasons:

a.It was demonstrably inferior to Knoppix in terms of hardware recognition
b.It was as buggy as hell
c.apt-get is a far better package management tool than YaST ever was
d.There simply are not enough packages built as SuSE rpms.
f. Once SuSE became a plc the support started to become snotty and not so good......


Over 1000 packages as part of the SuSE 9.3 distibution aren't enough for you? Well, try alien and then use all of the *.deb packages as well! No SuSE RPMs, try other RPMs, YaST will manage this for you! Does apt-get handle RPMs?

YaST does far more than just package management - whilst admitting that YaST isn't perfect, for quick administration of home workstations it is very powerful.

As for newbies buying the boxed SuSE set with the User & Admin Guides in paper and 60-days of installation support, they can't get better with Ubuntu, Red Hat or any other commercial distibution.

Is the hard disk installation of Knoppix any easier when setting up dual boot? Debian still has to get a graphical installer together, most of us left the CLI only systems in the 1980s, GUI is much more intuitive for installation and configuration.

Look at who the advice is for - giving a Debian DVD to a newbie is only going to convince them NOT to use Linux.

END RANT ... :roll:
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Re: RE: Suse 9.3

Postby A-Wing » Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:49 am

ollie wrote:Does apt-get handle RPMs?


Yes, apt4rpm. I use it over Yum in Fedora.
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RE: Re: RE: Suse 9.3

Postby fingers99 » Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:41 pm

Does apt-get handle RPMs?
See above. Note that there is an apt available for SuSE, but there has never been a call for a YaST for Debian, although Novell did offer it..... Also note that alien works both ways.

Now, most of your rant, ollie, doesn't address what I said.

But I certainly found that the multimedia stuff in SuSE was very lacking. I either had to search for it on obscure German sites or try to put it together from RedHat source rpms (with all the attendant problems that involves). And are you really saying that YaST will handle any RedHat rpm without a problem?

The advantage, of course, in having a vastly bigger collection of packages in the native deb format is that apt-get can handle the dependencies automagically.

To be sure, YaST is a fine tool, and far more than a wrapper for rpm: my objections to it are not to its utility, but to its idiosyncracy: it breaks the *nix tradition of having lots of small, seperate (but perfect) tools and lumps everything together in one big slightly -- by your own admission -- imperfect tool. On the other hand, I will naturally use the same tools in RedHat as in Debian: the experiece is transferable, not a dead end.

I'd never give a newbie a Debian DVD (or use one myself). To my mind there's no point when Kanotix has better autodetection and an easy peasy installer and installs the Debian version I want (Sid, which is invariably more up to date than SuSE).

Again, SuSE may (or may not) install dual booting more easily than Kanotix (I don't know, its so long since I dual booted), but it is very easy to do on any recent Linux.

As for reading material, I'd think that Rute is likely to be of use for far longer than the SuSE manuals, and Rute, of course, focusses on Debian and RedHat, not on SuSE.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Suse 9.3

Postby ollie » Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:07 am

fingers99 wrote:And are you really saying that YaST will handle any RedHat rpm without a problem?


No - but they can be easily tried. If they have been packaged correctly and the installation is to the FHS & LSB then they should be handled. The problem is non-standard installation or configurations - the same thing happens with all distributions regardless of the package management system. If one was perfect there would be no need for any other :wink: .

fingers99 wrote:multimedia stuff in SuSE ... I had to search for it on obscure German sites

YaST Online Update found the four multimedia packages first run and installed them with no problems. This is a common problem with Linux in general due to DRM and codec restrictions.

fingers99 wrote:Sid, which is invariably more up to date than SuSE


The package listings at Debian News and SUSE What's New clearly indicate that Sid is a long way behind SUSE 9.3 if you use tested stable applications.

fingers99 wrote:As for reading material, I'd think that Rute is likely to be of use for far longer than the SuSE manuals, and Rute, of course, focusses on Debian and RedHat, not on SuSE.

Surely a book copyrighted in 2002 is more out of date to one published in 2005. Is a book good just because it focuses on Debian and Red Hat? No - but RUTE is always worth having around :D .

I have also said on a number of forums one of the major problems with Linux is the lack of a centralised configuration tool. I know about manually editing *.conf files and using Red Hat's multitude of configuration tools but for people learning computing this disparity is what stops the more wide spread adoption of Linux. As a system administrator I should be able to go to any server or workstation and easily find a configuration tool. Apple OS X has most of the configuration tools in a folder called "Utilities" or "Server", but it's a number of separate tools with different interfaces. Computers are a tool of business, not the end means. YaST is a step in the right direction, but if I don't have a DNS installed I shouldn't see a configuration icon. I shouldn't have to load Gnome/KDE just to edit a single configuration using a GUI, X should be sufficient. A single point of configuration across all distributions would mean the experience is really transferable. Webmin is closer to this, but I shouldn't have to run a web server locally just to configure my system.

I stand by what I said, as a commercial supported distribution, SUSE 9.3 is the best by far of the current crop. However, I hope this changes as each distribution releases a new version - Linux gets better if this happens. :D :D
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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Suse 9.3

Postby jdtate101 » Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:05 am

I can quite often use Redhat/Fedora RPM's on my system, as long as they are complied for the same architecture (ie x86_64), then they still tend to work. Sometime you get a few odd things happening, but that is quite rare.
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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Suse 9.3

Postby fingers99 » Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:48 pm

Quick point: I use Sid (unstable). Unstable in Deb speak doesn't mean unstable in terms of falling over and crashing, but unstable in the sense that the package list is constantly mutating. Sid is by a long way the most stable (in terms of crashing) distro I've used since (IIRC) SuSE 6.4 and RedHat 7.2 ;-)
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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Suse 9.3

Postby uselinux34 » Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:27 pm

I am running Suse 9.3 on an AMD 64 CPU, and Gigabyte mobo, and it is the first Linux distro, which I have installed that all my hardware has worked on. Also the first distro which I have been able to configure properly for Printer and file sharing with my windoze xp laptop. I have tried Mandrake,Ubuntu, Slackware, Knoppix and I could not get these features to work on them, probably down to my inexperience, but with Suse I got it all working using Yast with no problem at all.
I would therefore recomend it to anyone. My PC is on all day everyday, and it has never faultered.
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