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BBC Onlie (sic)
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is Linux ready for the desktop
yes
76%
 76%  [ 20 ]
no
7%
 7%  [ 2 ]
maybe
15%
 15%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 26

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towy71
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 11:40 pm    Post subject: BBC Onlie (sic) Reply with quote

I draw everyones attention to bbc online verdict on linux?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/4565581.stm
discuss
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Flea
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:07 am    Post subject: RE: BBC Onlie (sic) Reply with quote

Quote:
We think the move to Linux is distinctly possible, simply because there are so many more PC systems out there than Macintosh. What do you think?


Wtf has that got to do with the price of cheese? Linux can run on both x86 and powerpc (and many more architectures besides). The BBC never cease to amaze me with their abhorred lack of technological knowledge. I mean... really... what? C'mon! Linux has been ready for the desktop for the last 2-3 years!

I really don't think there will be a time 'the masses' think 'Linux is ready for the desktop' until it is bloody indistinguishable from Windows! Basically the oss community needs to develop a distro that *IS*, for all intents and purposes, Windows friggin' XP!

I mean, do we really need Linux to go mainstream? I couldn't care less if "joe random hacker" uses Linux! Let them pay extortionate amounts of money for inferior products if that's what they want! As long as I have an alternative I couldn't care less. And if Linux is destroyed/made illegal/sells out who cares? I go to BSD, MenuetOS, Minix or I write my own bloody OS if needs be!

Sod it all I'm going to bed!

Dave.

p.s sorry, long day.
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smita034



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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 9:36 am    Post subject: RE: BBC Onlie (sic) Reply with quote

There are a few little bits that need ironing out before it will be full desktop ready;
Hardware, Software (Oh come one, don't say there are free ones, I know there is, but face it some people want to use Dreamweaver and PhotoShop! Not to mention playing games), software installation (Gentoo's portage works wonders, does everything for you - Including dependencys. There are other, just, not as clever imho) etc etc

we are generaly not "desktop" users. I'd see as a desktop user the old lady next door, my mum, my landlord etc etc.

Flea wrote:
do we really need Linux to go mainstream?
Yes, if you want support for your hardware and/or software that you use that isnt native to linux. If your happy with that, then sure, keep it off the desktop.
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Last edited by smita034 on Mon May 23, 2005 10:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Nobber
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:42 am    Post subject: RE: BBC Onlie (sic) Reply with quote

Is Linux ready for the desktop?

I'm not sure this oft-repeated question is either interesting or relevant any more. The answer is obviously Yes.

The question we could be asking instead is: Are people ready, willing and able to use Linux on the desktop? (And if not, why the bloody hell not?)
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Nigel
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: RE: BBC Onlie (sic) Reply with quote

Nobber wrote:
The question we could be asking instead is: Are people ready, willing and able to use Linux on the desktop? (And if not, why the bloody hell not?)


Well, my answer to that question is "under the right circumstances".

There's no point in me using a Linux desktop to test the Solaris or Windoze versions of our software, is there ? Or if I want to play a multi-player Age of Empires game with the family.

With Firefox, Thunderbird & OpenOffice it doesn't matter what desktop I use.

But I do use a Linux desktop for preference when burning CDs (K3B), recording radio comedy (Audacity), scanning (Kooka), opening emails from people I don't know (ie viruses !) or doing non-MS programming. And it's a no-brainer choice for any type of server.
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davecs
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: RE: BBC Onlie (sic) Reply with quote

Nobber wrote:
Is Linux ready for the desktop?


Well, it's ready for mine!
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Rhakios
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 7:53 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: BBC Onlie (sic) Reply with quote

I still find browser plug-ins a major PITA in Linux, getting them set up properly so that they work. With OS X I find they just work. So for those who need their browser plug-ins, I suppose they would say it isn't ready.
It's the only shortcoming I can think of though.
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davecs
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 8:09 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: BBC Onlie (sic) Reply with quote

What plugins, specifically?
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Rhakios
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 9:01 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: BBC Onlie (sic) Reply with quote

All browser plug-ins, one way or another, from flash through realplayer to acroread. I have never bothered trying to get any quicktime support, it isn't worth my time.
Sometimes flash (the least troublesome) works OOTB, sometimes it doesn't. Nowadays I mostly use realplayer in stand alone mode and download pdfs for reading, so I'm not too bothered.
But then it also depends on which browser I'm using at the time, they all seem to require some degree of individual setting up, whereas in OSX if I have the browser and the plug-in installed they just work.
Still, I'm not going to be tempted to go back to using Windows on my x86 boxes after 6 years of getting used to Linux.
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davecs
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:44 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: BBC Onlie (sic) Reply with quote

I know I've said this before, but have you tried PCLinuxOS? It comes as standard with Realplayer integrated into Firefox, it comes with KPackage so you can load the rpm of Adobe Reader 7 with the minimum of fuss. Most media "just plays" but you have to install libdvdcss from the PCLOS repositories to get Kaffeine to play DVDs.

According to the Plug-ins dialogue on Firefox, it can handle:

AI, AU, AVI, DOC, DVI, MID, MPEG, MPGA, PBM, PDF, PGM, PNM, PPM, PPT, QT, RGB, RPM, RTF, SDA, SDC, SDD, SDW, SGL, SMF, SMI, STC, STD, STI, STW, SWF, SXC, SXD, SXG, SXI, SXM, SXW, TIFF, WAV.

Can't see WMF though. I'm sure MPlayer can deal with them, though.
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Rhakios
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 11:10 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: BBC Onlie (sic) Reply with quote

No, and I'm not going to. I can get SuSE and Mandriva to play most things eventually. My point is that they don't just work. Which is relevant to this thread insofar as most new users will not be able to fiddle with things until they do work as I can. It's not a question of the packages being available, they all are, it's just whether or not they work without further effort.
DVD playback is easy in SuSE and Mandriva if you just follow the instructions at pacman in the first case and use the plf packages in the other. Indeed media playback is not the problem it's the bloomin' plug-ins.
Incidentally, I prefer Opera.
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Flea
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 12:44 am    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: BBC Onlie (sic) Reply with quote

smita034 wrote:
we are generally not "desktop" users. I'd see as a desktop user the old lady next door, my mum, my landlord etc. etc.


Rhakios wrote:
No, and I'm not going to. I can get SuSE and Mandriva to play most things eventually. My point is that they don't just work


No, no and no again! Sorry but, your mum, landlord etc. wont be able to get stuff working (plugins etc.) on Windows either! Ppl like my mum and joe blogs down the street have just as much bother installing such things on a Windows box! It really, REALLY doesn't matter a toss if they are running Windows or Linux, most ppl are gonna get a technician to install the things like browser plugins anyway!

So WHY sell your customers pc's with an operating system where they are gonna screw stuff up all the time? Give them Linux, I know for a fact my granny couldn't screw up my Linux box, but if I ran Windows...who knows?

Linux has been ready for the desktop market for YEARS! Windows is STILL no more ready than Linux is! Your average computer user STILL has as much trouble with Windows as they would with Linux. Stop your evaluating/judging Linux based on your own knowledge!

Linux IS ready and HAS BEEN ready for a bloody long time. Windows is only 'simple' to technologically minded ppl who already know how to 'install drivers', 'resolve conflicts', 'upgrade a piece of software'! Most ppl will NEVER know how to install an office package or configure their firewall, and frankly they couldn't give a toss either (who could blame them?).

The whole 'is Linux ready for..." bullshit only exists because of ppl who know something about computers but are afraid of making the 'plunge' and 'learning something new' for themselves!

*rant over*

Dave.
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nordle
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 12:46 am    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: BBC Onlie (sic) Reply with quote

Rhakios, fair point, as pointed out though, with firefox most of these extensions are a few clicks away.
And just think how many times a windows install requires you to download the latest drivers and suffer 26 reboots while it all goes on.

People who install O/S's will be used to going to grab some items, but with a Linux distro they should find it refreshing to only grab a few items and not re-boot.

People who don't install O/S's wont have to bother, as they should probably opt for something like Linspire (yes I like it), everything is already setup for you.

Its not perfect, but its quite good and getting better all the time.


EDIT: Flea, we made similar points at the same time, as your reply was not there while I was typing this, I hit submit and doh! I've just repeated a lot of what you said (without seeing your post).
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andychannelle
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 9:11 am    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: BBC Onlie (sic) Reply with quote

I've not had a problem with plugins in about a year and a bit, and this is especially the case with SUSE9.3 which has Flash, Realplayer, Acroread 7 available OOTB. Though even before this, someone sensibly made the Flash player installable via XPI. Access to Quicktime was, technically, only slightly more complex than the the Windows install - just download the relevant version of MPlayer and the codecs and install. Two things to do instead of one, and no reboot.

Andy
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smita034



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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: BBC Onlie (sic) Reply with quote

Flea wrote:
No, no and no again! Sorry but, your mum, landlord etc. wont be able to get stuff working (plugins etc.) on Windows either! Ppl like my mum and joe blogs down the street have just as much bother installing such things on a Windows box!
weird last time i checked install was basicly *click next* *click next* - that or it installed it self. and fyi, they can....

even my computer illitrate dad can install plugins in windows. and software.
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