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Networking over mains - ethernet
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bigjohn
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:19 pm
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Location: UK - South Coast

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:12 pm    Post subject: Networking over mains - ethernet Reply with quote

Does anyone have any experience/knowledge of doing this ?

I've been looking at the these devices and it seems/looks like an excellent way of not having to mess around with additional cabling round the house.

I already have a solwise modem/router running my network and it would mean that I don't have to get wireless kit that may or may not run (hassle free) under linux.

The Solwise devices are independant of OS (even though the paperwork bores the arse off me with comment about windows/Mac). It's accessed from a browser as far as I can tell.

I did email "them" and they seem to think that there'd be no problems at all.

I just wondered if anyone had tried this and how effective it was i.e. was there any hassle/difficulties etc

regards

John
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towy71
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Location: wild West Wales

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:11 pm    Post subject: RE: Networking over mains - ethernet Reply with quote

no personal experience, but i hear they provide more bandwidth than wifi, but slow down when high noise appliances are on, washing machine, microwave etc. They look like a cool idea to me.
looking at the PDF docs if windows 98SE can handle it, the odds are that Linux will work with it too, after all, it is just providing ethernet signals.
mind you I'm not sure about how secure it is after reading through to:
Code:
3.3.2   Network Security
Normally the electric meter forms a physical barrier, i.e. only devices connected to this meter
can be part of the network and benefit from the phase coupling. We strongly recommend that
you use the PL-85PE HomePlug Ethernet Adaptor internal device encryption. It is configured
with the PL-85PE HomePlug Ethernet Adaptor Configuration Utility (refer to Page 15 on the
Configuration Utility User Guide for Windows).


but 43 squids per connection and you need at least two Confused
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bigjohn
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:03 am    Post subject: RE: Networking over mains - ethernet Reply with quote

well yes, 86 to get myself up and running seems a lot, but it occurred to me that I wouldn't get much in the way of wireless for that. I'd still need the wireless router or modem/router and a wireless card for my partners laptop.

Plus to benefit for wireless properly I'd have to make sure I got a wireless card that could be configured easily under linux - which can be problematic.

This way, I was thinking that I just leave the main PC connected, and my partner can just plug her laptop in downstairs without any problems. Plus as it's basically a wired connection, it's probably more secure than wireless.

So it does seem probably have greater benefits for what I want to do!

If anyone has tried these or similar devices, please feel free to post advice/suggestions/experiences etc.

regards

John
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dandnsmith
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:21 am    Post subject: RE: Networking over mains - ethernet Reply with quote

http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=multiuser&Number=2320633&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&fpart=

Might be food for thought - there are other postings about homelink on the adslguide forums, but you'd have to search for them
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bigjohn
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:54 pm    Post subject: Re: RE: Networking over mains - ethernet Reply with quote

dandnsmith wrote:
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=multiuser&Number=2320633&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&fpart=

Might be food for thought - there are other postings about homelink on the adslguide forums, but you'd have to search for them

Ha! how stupid of me to forget the adslguide forums!

I didn't find any mention of the Solwise devices, but I've had good experiences of their service and kit thus far, plus at 83 the pair, I don't really need the home plug starter kit from devolo.

The link you posted, suggests that it's reasonably good kit and is straight forward to use - which is excellent as it's only so my partner can run her laptop from downstairs.

S'pose it'd mean having to delve into the depths of SAMBA (again), but the convenience is a small price to pay.

Thankyou for the link though, it's provided some good (and tasty) food for thought.

regards

John
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telboy



Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:56 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you considered the Devolo MicroLink dLan adaptors featured in this months magazine? (quoted at the wrong price I'm afraid - appear to have left a 1 off the front of the amount)
I'd almost given up on Linux because I found it impossible to configure a Wifi adaptor. Thought Id try these several months ago and haven't looked back. Just run an ethernet cable (provided) from your modem router to an adaptor plugged into the nearest power socket and from another plugged into the another power socket to your PC. Then just configure an ethernet connection using the Linux software provided.
Suse 10 picked up the connection on installation (Suse that is,not the adaptors) anyway so there was no configuration or software installation to do.
Faster than my wireless connection using WindowsXP so I now use them for Windows aswell and only connect to my modem/router wirelessly when using my laptop. I think they are brilliant and can strongly recommend them.
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emyr42
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

personally, I'd rather be using Wi-fi...
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shifty_ben
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wi-fi is quite dependant on where you are though, I've been in houses where it is nigh on impossible to get a decent signal in the next room from the router, and others where signal is consistent and strong throughout the house. Granted part of that will depend on the quality of the router and the NICs used, but Wifi can be somewhat unstable. It also poses a security issue, WPA is good but not unbreakable. Still a bit of an issue with this in terms of that, but as the meter acts as a sort of firewall (presumably due to diodes or somesuch) at least they need to get into your house and plug in.
Of course in somewhere with wiring shared between a lot of rooms - University halls, Hotels etc this argument is less valid, but in the home it is probably only marginally less secure than properly wired networking.
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emyr42
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't more wireless routers do MAC filtering nowadays? I know it's spoofable, but it makes it a lot les trivial.
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shifty_ben
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, it does make it less trivial but it takes a lot less to get the information you need to spoof than you might think. Having said that If your router is linked up to the Internet then theres always a risk of security breach so you could argue that having wireless presents little more of a risk
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spottedcat
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to ask an irritatingly elementary question.

The devolo (MicroLink dLAN - reviewed in LXF79) website shows a setup for 2 computers to be connected simultaneously to the internet, as follows: Router connected to a single MicroLink device via a single ethernet cable, then 2 computers each connected to their own MicroLinks in other rooms. 3 MicroLinks altogether - 3 ethernet cables. Makes sense. But can a router communicate at the same time down one cable, assigning different IP addresses to each machine? The Devolo website seems to imply that this is so, but I would like confirmation of this before I decide whether I want to buy these expensive bits of kit.

Excuse my ignorance. It seems such a basic thing to have to ask.


Last edited by spottedcat on Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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shifty_ben
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as my understanding of how they work is correct then the answer is Yes. AFAIK all the adaptor does it adjusts the pulses received from the router into something that isn't going to get outshouted as it were by the mains frequency. SO theorretically if you have two computers next to each other you should be able to get away with one of the devices in the room and then a switch between that and the two PCs. It does seem to work just as an extension of the cabling.

HTH

Ben
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spottedcat
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks - so that would mean - in effect - that if one had a suitable Y-piece, one could plug 2 computers into the one socket of the router, and each would still have its own IP address? Not that I would want to - but I'm just trying to understand.

Edit: the more I think of this, the more it doesn't add up. I should have provided a link to the Devolo 2comps/1router setup so HERE it is. In effect, 2 computers are being stuffed into one RJ45 on the router.
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nelz
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes you can connect more than one device to a single port on a router, by running them through a hub or switch. The Devolo devices must contain the necessary to enable each to act as a hub for the others.
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spottedcat
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, nelz. That's very helpful. In fact I've got 3 PCs sitting next to each other with a KVM switch. (Don't ask - it's a long story.) At the moment - 3 ethernet cables. From what you say I could get a hub/switch to connect the three to a single devolo thingy. That means I would need only 2 microlinks instead of 4. At about 70 smackers a go that would be a lot cheaper.

OK. If I go ahead, I'll post my experience in this forum.

Thank you both, nelz and shifty_ben.
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