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Linux and UEFI

 
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rickdownton



Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:22 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Wiltshire

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:23 pm    Post subject: Linux and UEFI Reply with quote

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum or has already been answered - but I suspect that the problems I am having are widespread.
Basically I'm trying to install Mint 16 Megamix from LXF 184 on my Dell laptop which was bought with Win 8,1 installed - but where are the instructions on what to do with Fastboot, SecureBoot, Legacy, UEFI etc etc. Eventually after much web searching I managed to get it sort of working, but it's not a good advert for installing Mint! How many have also tried and given up?

Pre-UEFI (I am that old!) life was so easy, and I would have happily converted fully to Linux, except I had to lecture about Windows - but now??? And please don't suggest moving fully to Linux - I still need to use Win as well.

Time for an LXF article which could be put on all the distro cover discs?
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wyliecoyoteuk
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Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:41 pm
Posts: 3444
Location: Birmingham, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And your point is?

Microsoft and Dell have sold you a Laptop which is difficult to install Linux on.

Secure boot and UEFI are just part of it.
Your Windows license is encrypted and stored in the BIOS.
How is that the fault of Linux?

Yes the old BIOS had to be replaced, we all agreed on that, but "Secure boot" is as secure as a Blu-Ray key, and is just an attempt by MS to make it harder for Linux.
Luckily the outrage over the key processes watered it down a little.

Dual boot has always been a problem. If you want to use Windows, don't expect Microsoft to make it easy for you to use anything else.

There has been some coverage in LXF, but the problem with UEFI is that every manufacturer does it differently.

The other issue is that a great many of us are avoiding Windows8.

I work on a large number of company networks, and I still rarely see it.
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rickdownton



Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:22 pm
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Location: Wiltshire

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I obviously didn't explain myself properly - I'm trying to persuade others to use Linux - but if installation is so awkward then people just will not use it! Linux is too good for it to fail because newbies use Win 8!

So how about an idiot's guide to UEFI installation?
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linux_dan



Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:47 pm
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Linux and UEFI Reply with quote

rickdownton wrote:
Sorry if this is in the wrong forum or has already been answered - but I suspect that the problems I am having are widespread.
Basically I'm trying to install Mint 16 Megamix from LXF 184 on my Dell laptop which was bought with Win 8,1 installed - but where are the instructions on what to do with Fastboot, SecureBoot, Legacy, UEFI etc etc. Eventually after much web searching I managed to get it sort of working, but it's not a good advert for installing Mint! How many have also tried and given up?

Pre-UEFI (I am that old!) life was so easy, and I would have happily converted fully to Linux, except I had to lecture about Windows - but now??? And please don't suggest moving fully to Linux - I still need to use Win as well.

Time for an LXF article which could be put on all the distro cover discs?



See my post in the help section - found a great link that worked on a new Dell with Windows Hate .1 Good luck Very Happy
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johnhudson
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Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:37 pm
Posts: 870

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rickdownton wrote:
So how about an idiot's guide to UEFI installation?


J.A.Watson has done a series covering several distros. This was his first one earlier this year: http://www.zdnet.com/hands-on-my-new-asus-laptop-uefi-and-linux-7000027284/
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wyliecoyoteuk
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Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:41 pm
Posts: 3444
Location: Birmingham, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, sometimes I get a little cynical.

To be honest it is dual booting that's the problem.
I have persuaded many users to drop Windows, but not by using dual boot.
At home, I don't use Windows at all, haven't for years. My wife and I use Android, Ubuntu and Mythbuntu.
And I know quite a few households that are the same.
I only use a dual boot laptop at work, and that is dual boot between windows 7 and 8.1, although we do have Linux servers and workstations.
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ChrisThornett
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Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:43 am
Posts: 64
Location: Bath

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Linux and UEFI Reply with quote

rickdownton wrote:
Sorry if this is in the wrong forum or has already been answered - but I suspect that the problems I am having are widespread.
Basically I'm trying to install Mint 16 Megamix from LXF 184 on my Dell laptop which was bought with Win 8,1 installed - but where are the instructions on what to do with Fastboot, SecureBoot, Legacy, UEFI etc etc. Eventually after much web searching I managed to get it sort of working, but it's not a good advert for installing Mint! How many have also tried and given up?

Pre-UEFI (I am that old!) life was so easy, and I would have happily converted fully to Linux, except I had to lecture about Windows - but now??? And please don't suggest moving fully to Linux - I still need to use Win as well.

Time for an LXF article which could be put on all the distro cover discs?


Hey Rick,

It's a subject that crops up regularly. As you've discovered there are ways round the SecureBoot feature of UEFI, but I wonder as Ubuntu 14.04 supports SecureBoot, whether that trickles down to Mint 17? Using a distro that supports the feature rather than circumvents it may be the preferable outcome as it is meant to help protect systems from bootloader malware.
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dandnsmith
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:01 am
Posts: 308
Location: Berks, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I, too, am going through such a problem.
I wanted to dual boot Windows 7 with XBMCbuntu on a Compaq desktop PC (which, I think) has the UEFI stuff installed.
I got to the point where I found that a LiveCD with XBMCbuntu could be booted, but the same thing on a USB stick couldn't - and couldn't work out what to do to evade the block.
I could do with an article which goes into some of these matters (is it OK to try to change the partitions ...)
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nelz
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:52 pm
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Location: Warrington, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did you copy the CD to the USB stick?

Did you turn off secure boot?

Did you enable legacy booting, sometimes called CSM?
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dandnsmith
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:01 am
Posts: 308
Location: Berks, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. I created a bootable usb stick by following links on the XBMC site to get LiLi bootable creator. The distro iso is for 64bit hardware, and I can only access the one PC for this.

2. I ran into a morass of information, which led to not knowing how to turn off secure boot.

3.Again, I didn't find how to enable legacy booting on this PC

Thanks for taking an interest - it is in the latter two areas I find confusion and am hoping to find enlightenment. My aging brain doesn't cope as well as it used to.

Later: I spent some time playing with the boot menu and PC setup, and finally found an arrangement to let me boot from the USB stick. I've still no idea whether it is 'safe' to go ahead with an install, bearing in mind that it is not acceptable to stop Windows from booting and working.
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Derek


Last edited by dandnsmith on Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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nelz
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:52 pm
Posts: 8457
Location: Warrington, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the ISO is a hybrid, you can copy it to the USB stick with dd, the USB stick then appears as a CDROM. I hve found this the most reliable way of booting an ISO from a stick. You can check if it is a hybrid with

Code:
sudo fdisk -l /path/to/iso


If it shows any partitions, this is a hybrid ISO.

If you post a photo of the boot section of the "BIOS" setup, maybe someone with a similar system can point out the correct option. It is neither documented nor obvious on this laptop.
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dandnsmith
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:01 am
Posts: 308
Location: Berks, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our posts have crossed (see my previous), and I've now booted from the USB stick.
PC is Compaq CQ1040UK (it says on the side)
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