damn small linux

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Postby towy71 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:38 am

Raspbian has access to the Debian repositories Pidora has the Fedora reps I believe the Debian reps have more than Fedora ymmv :roll:
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Postby Nuke » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:49 am

nelz wrote: the arbitrary 50MB limit imposed by an obsolete media format that hardly anyone used when it was around - the business card CD?

I've seen business card CDs, and also small circular CDs, but never realised thay were a "recognised" format. My boss received an adware business card CD back then in a random mail shot, and against the advice of onlookers put it in his PC. It wrecked his drive :lol:
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Re: damn small linux

Postby Nuke » Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:35 am

oldpenguin wrote:Damn Small seems to have new life coming. .. I tried their forum, but found it is being trashed
just like the old forum was.


I'm not sure what you mean by "trashed". I looked at the DSL forum and see that it is full of spam about wedding dresses of all things. Does someone think geeks buy wedding dresses? So that is "trashed"? But then you say :-

I like DSL because I can run it in ram without hard drives.
Seems my system doesn't get trashed as often this way.


I don't follow you. How is your system being trashed? You mean with spam and adware like the DSL forum? And what does running in RAM mean and how does it help? Do you mean that it never needs the swap file? My system, even with a full-sized distro and KDE, hasn't used the swap file for years; memory is cheap.

Still, DSL has not kept up with the times


With the very first bullet point feature on the DSL home page being the fact that it can be run from a credit card CD, they certainly haven't. If you need a distro in your pocket, who would not use a USB stick nowadays?

And the definition of old hardware is moving on (like that of "Classic" cars - I find I am now driving one). DSL talk of running on a 486DX with 16MB for heavens sake! That was my rig nearly 25 years ago and I am surprised if any such kit has not failed from old age by now (I have had much newer stuff fail).

Interestingly, there is a new Mepis-based project for a small distro using the 3.12 kernel and XFCE :

http://www.mepis.org/node/177

Being described as "midweight" it seems it will avoid the mistaken assumption that everyone wants a distro to run on 25yo kit. A more typical scenario is wanting to use recently discarded kit (especially as our family etc move from PCs to hand-helds), say 3-5 years old. MX-14 is still in beta, but Mepis being a solid and well established Debian based distro (I use it) it is promising and I shall give it a go on my secondary PC soon.
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Postby oldpenguin » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:56 pm

quote="Nuke"]I'm not sure what you mean by "trashed". I looked at the DSL forum and see that it is full of spam about wedding dresses of all things. Does someone think geeks buy wedding dresses? So that is "trashed"? [/quote]

ah, yes. I found it interesting. As soon as a registered user logs on this
spammer logs off. I don't think it's spam - I think it's intended to make LINUX anything
look bad. Saw it here too, but there's enough vigilent users to keep it clean of such things.

Nuke wrote:
oldpenguin wrote:I like DSL because I can run it in ram without hard drives.Seems my system doesn't get trashed as often this way.

I don't follow you. How is your system being trashed? You mean with spam and adware like the DSL forum? And what does running in RAM mean and how does it help? Do you mean that it never needs the swap file? My system, even with a full-sized distro and KDE, hasn't used the swap file for years; memory is cheap.


I'm sure it's not intended to be personal, but this user has a system old enough to NOT
boot from a flash drive. The maximum memory is limited to uder a gig, and I'm
perfectly happy driving "my classic old system".

My "antique" is a modified 86X086 IBM-XT, running an INBRDPC X386 w/2 MEG,
and it still runs more reliably (however slow) compared to some of the crap
I see in use today. Sometimes I link it up to my current system using an RS-232 null modem.

As far as ram based systems go, DSL loads quickly because of it's small size,
and runs fast (even on my poor old limited system). And guess what? If some
site does something naughty, my system has something you probably don't: A real
reset button, and a real power switch. And guess what else? When it's back on
it loads a nice fresh copy of whatever system sits in it's READ ONLY tray.

And yes, I've had some really mean spirited things happen. Once, when reading
a book online, the R/W drive lit up and destroyed the media! That's why I use this
stripped down system in the first place.

Now I'm writing here all in fun, and it's not intended to put down all the new
bells and whistles out there. They don't impress me. These new units have
much to exploit, but mostly, they are being used to replace your phone, TV,
radio, music, movies, etc, etc.

It's my understanding that the lastest and greatest will replace my toaster,
fridge, dishwasher, and I now have the plans for a 3D replicator so it can serve
meals, too.

now, instead of putting down DamnSmallLinux, why not support this Linux user
who does use the bigger systems... but not online. I shouldn't have to run
SuSE, Ubuntu, Red Hat, Debian, or Gentoo, just to watch a YouTube flick.
Seems these systems start to crawl if they can't phone-home first.
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Postby Nuke » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:42 pm

oldpenguin wrote:
Nuke wrote:I looked at the DSL forum and see that it is full of spam


ah, yes. I found it interesting. As soon as a registered user logs on this
spammer logs off. I don't think it's spam - I think it's intended to make LINUX anything look bad.


I think all forums have the problem, not just Linux ones. I don't see how adverts for wedding dresses make Linux look bad, but then I don't know how these people's minds work; not like mine obviously. Perhaps they are trying to make us look like faries :roll:

oldpenguin wrote:I'm sure it's not intended to be personal, but this user has a system old enough to NOT boot from a flash drive. The maximum memory is limited to uder a gig, and I'm
perfectly happy driving "my classic old system".

I've just been re-installing Windows XP (sorry) on a family member's PC that fits that description too (256Mb). There is nothing Windows likes better than a fresh re-install every few months. However, I use a Linux live CD to do the groundwork like backing up the data, as it is so much cleaner to work with.

oldpenguin wrote:My "antique" is a modified 86X086 IBM-XT, running an INBRDPC X386 w/2 MEG

An XT ! - that's awsome. I remember those at work, though I never had one (managers only). I like their retro style (but hated those 5.25 floppies), solid, massive. I don't go for minimalism, and right now I am using an IBM AT keyboard that must be 20 years old (and will last for ever). But I don't suppose your XT has a CD drive anyway? Perhaps an external one.

oldpenguin wrote:And guess what? If some site does something naughty, my system has something you probably don't: A real
reset button, and a real power switch.

Yes, got those on all my PCs, though the hard power switches are round the back. But there is not much that web sites can do to Linux that needs the reset button. Sometimes I think they cause a Javascript loop (a Car dealer website did that to me yesterday), but you can always go into a full screen CLI session and kill the process.

oldpenguin wrote:now, instead of putting down DamnSmallLinux, why not support this Linux user who does use the bigger systems... but not online.


Don't worry, you are welcome here :D , but expect some banter. I would not put down any Linux distro (but I might constructively criticise), we have enough enemies outside. My point was that (XT's being very exceptional) we do not need more than say two or three ultra-minimalist distros aimed at such old hardware, and that there is a greater need for distros pitched at hardware of more intermediate age, in the 5-10 year bracket.
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Postby wyliecoyoteuk » Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:24 pm

you may find this interesting then.
The sig between the asterisks is so cool that only REALLY COOL people can even see it!

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Postby nelz » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:20 pm

oldpenguin wrote:I shouldn't have to run
SuSE, Ubuntu, Red Hat, Debian, or Gentoo, just to watch a YouTube flick.
Seems these systems start to crawl if they can't phone-home first.


FUD Alert!!!
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." (Albert Einstein)
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Postby wyliecoyoteuk » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:45 pm

+1 to Nelz
I use several Linux distros, I have never had a problem with running without internet access, except during installs where they need to download a driver.
No phone home syndrome.

And how are you going to watch a Youtube video without the internet?
The sig between the asterisks is so cool that only REALLY COOL people can even see it!

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Postby guy » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:09 am

oldpenguin wrote:I shouldn't have to run
SuSE, Ubuntu, Red Hat, Debian, or Gentoo, just to watch a YouTube flick. Seems these systems start to crawl if they can't phone-home first.

Yeah, it's awful. I run Debian and my web browser actually hangs up when the Internet connection is down. Can't even access my own home page !!!!!!!!!!
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Postby oldpenguin » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:49 pm

Wow. Lots of support here! The online computer is about 10 years old.
(The mother board anyway.) It's a mongrel of scavenged parts. Seems my
friends use me for a dumping ground rather than taking their old units
to the recycler.)

Nice to hear others have this speed problem. I never looked into it
because there are other faster working distros.
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Postby oldpenguin » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:24 pm

nuke wrote:An XT ! - that's awsome. I remember those at work, though I never had one (managers only). I like their retro style (but hated those 5.25 floppies), solid, massive. I don't go for minimalism, and right now I am using an IBM AT keyboard that must be 20 years old (and will last for ever). But I don't suppose your XT has a CD drive anyway? Perhaps an external one.


Perhaps one of the admins can yank this and part of others to start a new thread somewhere. I'm not sure how much interest there is in **REAL** antiques.

Souped up one of my old XT's years ago... I'm still amazed the power supply hasn't blown. The orginal 5.25 drives were replaced with a half height dual 3.5 and 5.25 drive. This made room for a CD-rom drive. The 10 meg (yes, MEG) MFM hard drive and controllers were swapped out for an IDE/FLOPPY controller board. The drive has more space on it of course. There is room for a second drive, but it might pop the power supply. The original boot-roms could have been replaced with a "fast boot" hacked version, but it seems a good memory test (however time consumming) is a wise idea due to the age of the unit (32 years). The CGA card was replaced with a basic VGA card and monitor.

(oh dear -- the monitors and pc cards - what a history lesson here.)
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Postby oldpenguin » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:56 pm

nuke wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by "trashed". I looked at the DSL forum and see that it is full of spam about wedding dresses of all things. Does someone think geeks buy wedding dresses? So that is "trashed"? But then you say :-


It has nothing to do with dresses. I think what is happening is that some (possible robo) person abitraily grabs a news item, or ad, and posts it after gaining a legitimate user ID.
The first DSL forum was trashed with robo accounts. Now, it's gain an ID, then add trash threads...
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Postby oldpenguin » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:27 pm

netz wrote:
oldpenguin wrote: I shouldn't have to run SuSE, Ubuntu, Red Hat, Debian, or Gentoo, just to watch a YouTube flick. Seems these systems start to crawl if they can't phone home first.


guy wrote:Yeah, it's awful. I run Debian and my web browser actually hangs up when the Internet connection is down. Can't even access my own home page !!!!!!!!!!


wyliecoyoteuk wrote:No phone home syndrome. How are you going to watch a Youtube video without the internet?




OK, OK, any freakin' video off line. OK?
I maintain a directory with every picture/video/sound/text-variant I can find. The first thing I do with a distro is put it through it's paces offline by looking through this directory with a browser. Hanging up by looking at your own home page is really sad.
At least DSL can do that well, even on older hardware.

Finally! Sorry for the fragmented entries.
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Postby guy » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:42 am

oldpenguin wrote:Hanging up by looking at your own home page is really sad.
At least DSL can do that well, even on older hardware.

I should warn you that my home page, like most home pages, is hosted on the Internet. I was joking.
To be serious now, my distro works just fine when offline, if yours doesn't you may find it is more of a config issue than a fault with the distro.
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Postby penguinclaw » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:11 am

purplepenguin wrote:
oldpenguin wrote:I'm no expert at programming. But how is it unoptimised to allow a program to use the full resources available? Surly it's the other way around. Restricting a program to use the bare minimum and leaving all that goodness unused.


I agree just look at the good work done with Libreoffice after forking from OO :)
FOSS the new way forward.
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