Linux Format forums

Re: RAD tools like VB

cioannou — Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:41 pm

Author: cioannou

Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:41 pm

Unfortunately after all this time searching I did not manage to find something cool, easy and RAD like Powerbuilder.

In Powerbuilder you can design and run a form/window either DBMS related or not in less than 10min. And it will actually do something useful, insert,update,delete your data. (Datawindow ROCKS!!!)

A report with groups,simple grid or even crosstab can also be designed in minutes.

Filesystem access, e-mail functionality, pdf printing, event handling,reference to controls/objects, data management,reporting are as easy and quick as 1-2-3. The help file is by far the best I've ever seen, with real world useful examples and not quick and dirty references.

The project structure is workable, you don't have to look in neverending header files or wondering what library you have to import to get needed functionality.

In general you don't have to code until you drop in order to write a nice looking real world application that will solve a company's problem very quickly.

That's what I am looking for Linux......and probably won't find soon.

Hey you guys at Sybase, please please please give us PB for Linux.
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Re: RAD tools like VB

rael — Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:27 pm

Author: rael

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:27 pm

I'm familiar with assembler for various 8 bit Microcontrollers, basic in various forms and visual basic 6 pro.

I have experimented with Gambas on Ubuntu when I had breezy badger loaded, it's a competent free IDE in the spirit of Linux.

It's not however recomended by the Ubuntu team... whethe because of (we don't do things like that around here", or because of genuine reasons, such as other superior IDEs.

If you do nothing but program, then certain aspects of a language can become irritating, usually in terms of scalability, extensability of methods to include your own additions. Visual Basic has been pretty good in that regard.

I was a little frustrated in Gambas to find that control arrays were not supported on the gui, at least on the version I downloaded.

Where I find an IDE excelent value, is in coding time. the gui you arrange on screen in the visual placement process is responsive to mouse actions in the design phase such that it will auto complete form code for GUI user generated events.

This is true for both Gambas and the microsoft VB products I've tried, but the process for linux IDEs such as boa constructor seems very messy in comparison.

I am trying to understand the differences in design philosophies between microsoft and Linux products, and it seems to me, that because Linux has been freely available, the support teams for Linux have had primarilly educational backgrounds versus Windows teams professional ones.

Professionally, a team is motivated of course by finance, time to market, blocking competition and market approval. Team approval does not sell... Geekishness obfuscates aquisition of technology by the masses.

Academically, a team is motivated by peer review. Further, most educational institutions work off government budgets, where as private teams work of the need to survive, and often, more lucrative remuneration.

Where private firms make market headway by being innovative, team leaders in educational institutions are often required to be conservative in comparison, and tend to collect more pedantic persons... those comfortable with teaching that which is already known.

I recall taking great delight in knowing how to program DOS batch files, programming in basic, and knowing my way around a PC in DOS many years ago... this is still a comparible comfort zone for many Linux supporters today, and I am thinking that for some, there is resentment at their expertees being marginalised by newer, more friendly generations of linux.

Microsoft's VB has been a good product... here's hoping that more linux programmers can learn from the positive example it's set, and make applications that are both intuitive, and flexible enough to reward the more inventive programmers amongst us.

I am hoping that a newer version of Gambas will compile to actually work stand alone on even my PC !
While python seems a nice compact language with excelent syntax, I've not yet seen a seamless IDE for it that has the same level of speed in GUI development that I had with VB. A pity, because I'd like to use it... but fit in with other projects that also deserve my attention.

No language should be worshipped in itself ! It offends my Athiest nature to see people elevating things beyond the context to which they are relevent.

RE: PureBasic

RD — Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:33 pm

Author: RD

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:33 pm

Yes, for basic in linux i tend to use realbasic, and if i have to use my laptop then vb.

PureBasic

www.bnp.org.uk — Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:45 am

Author: www.bnp.org.uk

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:45 am

I've just found another one

PureBasic (commercial US$ 69) - http://www.purebasic.com/screenshots.php3

Linux demo available (4.2MB) - http://www.purebasic.com/download.php3

I found this because a new game on Happypenguin is made with it - http://happypenguin.org/show?Lost%20Labyrinth

Regards

Re: RAD tools like VB

nordle — Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:56 pm

Author: nordle

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:56 pm

Im not sure if PHP can create a datasheet / spreadsheet like grid which can be updated really quickly by users ie edit figure, next row, edit figure, next row etc Just like a spreadsheet.
But thanks, I'll look more into what PHP can do.

I quite like eric3 as an ide, can do many languages:

http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3-screenshots.html

also SPE:

http://www.stani.be/python/spe/screenshots

or:

http://cute.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html

Re: RAD tools like VB

RD — Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:44 pm

Author: RD

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:44 pm

there are many useable ide's (when you said vb like i thought you meant like dragg and drop gui type thing) such as kdevelop, text editor, the options are unlimted it all comes to what you want to do and what language you want to use ? if you give me this info then maybe i can direct you towards a sutable ide/language.

Re: RAD tools like VB

www.bnp.org.uk — Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:35 pm

Author: www.bnp.org.uk

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:35 pm

nordle: If you want to create a browser based front-end for an SQL database you would use HTML+PHP. PHP has all you need for database access. For client-side apps you would use one of the development environments listed above.

I worked on a VB client-side app to access a MSSQL database storing customer records and reservations etc. The project eventually went browser based with ASP (it's a lot easier to maintain than individual programs on computers).

From what you are describing I gather you want something like ActiveX controls embedded in a web page. I do not know of anything for Linux that you could use except adapting Flash.

RD: I am looking for something like VB; it doesn't have to be Basic. Just a useable IDE with a high level language. Python is fun and I have used it for small programs. Thanks for the PythonCard reference - http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/ - I'll read up on it. I haven't researched Ruby yet.

Re: RAD tools like VB

RD — Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:39 pm

Author: RD

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:39 pm

Hmm

I know you can build applications for the web using python, but if i understand this right you want to make a full blow app then use it inside a web page ?

if thats the case then im stumped! if you are talking login pages etc yes but leats say quickrip use inside a web page ? no! not unless i scraped quickrip and built a web based dvd ripper (and i dont wanna even try that lol).

When i said "Now your talking my language"

i did not mean wxPython, i simply meant Python i prefer the Tkinter tool kit though i do like the look of gtk at the mo.

Oh and www.bnp.org.uk you may wish to check out pythoncard too but like i said python is not basic! if your happy to keep with basic go with REALbasic, how ever if you wish to learn a new language then you may wish to check out Ruby or Python, I've not tryed Ruby but im sick of hearing about it lol you can find all the above tools/apps through google

Re: RAD tools like VB

nordle — Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:18 pm

Author: nordle

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:18 pm

RD is it possible to run Python Apps written making use of wxPython to have them running inside a web page?

I ask because I've been looking at wxPython for 6mths and have yet to learn very much, as I need time (dont have it), loads of examples to do on a regular basis (no time) and Im naturally a piss poor programmer. SQL and database design, no problems, creating code to actually interface with the data graphically, I have not got a clue. That's why I use Access, it can create some quite complex and functionaly rich front ends to nearly any database quickly.

I really need to create a front end looking like Access Forms, so plenty of buttons, combo's, resizeable RTF box's then underneath, spreadsheet like continuous forms (wxGrid(ish)).
But would love to wrap all this stuff in a web site, leaving out client side apps.

Have a made any sense?

PS. Apologies for momentarily hyjacking the thread...

Re: RAD tools like VB

RD — Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:29 pm

Author: RD

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:29 pm

www.bnp.org.uk wrote:

I've pretty much exhausted my search for Linux RAD tools but I have found one more that deserves a mention:-

wxPython - http://www.wxpython.org - a Python version of wxWidgets (previously known as wxWindows). Enables the creation of cross platform GUI apps using an API. The IDE is called Boa Constructor (http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net) and looks very useable. Python is cool too.

Well that's about it; I didn't know there were so many

Now your talking my language

Python is great!! for small apps right through to big business like apps its easy to learn how ever its not basic which is what you asked for i believe ? the best place to go to learn python is www.python.org then tackle wxpython or gtkpy, qtpy etc etc.

i will give an example of how easy it is

Code:

print "Hello, World!"

thats it! for a command line app

for a gui

Code:

from Tkinter import *

root = Tk()

root.mainloop()

this wont do any thing just display a simple window but it will give you an idea of python, now go find the c or c++ version of a simple gui see how many lines of code you do just for the same job! that gose for the hello world example too.

infact the hello world in C:

Code:

#include <stdio.h>

int main()
{
printf ("Hello, World");
return (0);
}

as you can see there is a big diffrence!

Re: RAD tools like VB

www.bnp.org.uk — Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:26 pm

Author: www.bnp.org.uk

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:26 pm

RD wrote:

out of the three you have found i would go with REALbasic and sign up to there mailing lists too

It does seem to be a very polished product, although it's proprietary and not everyone will like that, there are no licensing or royalty issues.

I've pretty much exhausted my search for Linux RAD tools but I have found one more that deserves a mention:-

wxPython - http://www.wxpython.org - a Python version of wxWidgets (previously known as wxWindows). Enables the creation of cross platform GUI apps using an API. The IDE is called Boa Constructor (http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net) and looks very useable. Python is cool too.

Well that's about it; I didn't know there were so many

Re: RAD tools like VB

RD — Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:46 pm

Author: RD

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:46 pm

out of the three you have found i would go with REALbasic and sign up to there mailing lists too

Re: RAD tools like VB

www.bnp.org.uk — Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:39 pm

Author: www.bnp.org.uk

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:39 pm

For reference I have found three other Basic implementations for Linux that create GUI apps:-

Phoenix Object Basic - www.janus-software.com - as stated above by alloydog. The project seems to be in a half-dead state as there are problems with it running on newer distros. There is some talk about getting it open sourced to bring it up to date.

REALBasic - www.realbasic.com - which is a very professional product with the standard edition free to Linux users ($100 to Windows users ) It appears to use >= GTK2.0 and compiles to native code. It's advertised as Red Hat and Novell Ready so I imagine it's being pushed as THE Linux equivalent of VB.

wxBasic - http://wxbasic.sourceforge.net - for Linux and Windows that creates single file applications bound to the interpreter and uses GTK2. I haven't used it but it looks like there's no IDE. It's still being developed though.

I found this from googling 'wikipedia basic'.

RE: Re: RE: RAD tools like VB

RD — Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:39 pm

Author: RD

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:39 pm

The mono vb is still not considerd stable yet or was last time i read , keep away from Kbasic had more problems with that then i can shake a stick at. the best ones ive are Gambas, Hbasic and visul tcl the latter will require you to learn a new language

RE: Re: RE: RAD tools like VB

alloydog — Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:18 pm

Author: alloydog

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:18 pm

From this site: The table of equivalents / replacements / analogs of Windows software in Linux., they list, as equivilents to Visual Basic:
1) Phoenix.
2) KBasic.
3) HBasic.
4) Mono.
(though it is getting a bit old - 2003 last update)