Linux Format forums

Re: Apple to switch to Intel chips!

skecs — Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:08 am

Author: skecs

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:08 am

I have posted in a number of places regarding the media releases, there is one important bit ( sorry) missing and that is whether this is x86 32-bit or x86 64-bit. The G5s were advertised as the first real 64-bit desktop OS for people - and the advantage of the Apple PowerMac has always been the performance advantage the RISC processor has over x86 at CPU intensive tasks like Photoshop/Lightwave/Final Cut Pro/etc renders. If this advantage is lost then Apple becomes a two-bit hardware producer like Sun Microsystems without the "big iron". Just because they design "pretty packaging" doesn't mean it will be the reason it is chosen by consumers.

I like Apple for multimedia production (and I support G5 PowerMacs that are replacing G4 PowerMacs at the college where I work) and believe that they truly are a better system for this. I'm halfway through Apple Certified Technical Co-ordinator training, the first courses in Australia, but if this is a 32-bit x86 CPU then Apple has just gone backwards 10 years in CPU architecture and performance.

Re: Apple to switch to Intel chips!

jjmac — Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:58 am

Author: jjmac

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:58 am

Could be wrong but i think the BSD licience has a clause somewhere that allows the code to be "re-licenced" ... which if true sounds like a classic loophole to me. That is, it would explain the absence of the BSD licence in derived code headers, hiding the origin in the process. I probably should have researched that better before just posting it, as i'm not totally sure how correct i am there.

Also ... hasn't OS-X development been on Intell chips for some time ?

jm

Re: Apple to switch to Intel chips!

sandyman — Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:07 pm

Author: sandyman

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:07 pm

It's a Mach (Carnegie Mellon) Micro Kernel with a modified FreeBSD on top.

The FreeBSD licence is totally different to the GPL. Thats why M$ (allegedly) used the FreeBSD TCP/IP stack in earlier (current?) versions of Windows and did not have to declare it. It also explains their attitude towards SAMBA in the ongoing EU case.

Re: Apple to switch to Intel chips!

Rhakios — Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:54 pm

Author: Rhakios

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:54 pm

No, they use a kernel derived from BSD, the BSD license allows people to derive things for commercial use. Some of Apple's code is released under an open license(s), you can find it here.

Re: Apple to switch to Intel chips!

youlikeicecream — Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:22 pm

Author: youlikeicecream

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:22 pm

Isnt the MAC OS based on a UNIX kernel ? doesn't that mean we can do whatever we want to do with the bloody things ... ? i refer once again to an essay on digital freedoms

www.nick-andrew.net/Documents/digital-freedom.shtml

We bought, we own it. I can do what I like to MY playstation / My MAC / My Software that I bought. I think that American (and now EU Law) is intent on removing any freedoms that we have as consumers and wish to reduce us tom mindless un-innovative morons. Roll-out Linux

Re: Apple to switch to Intel chips!

sandyman — Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:51 am

Author: sandyman

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:51 am

Rhakios wrote:

I already have one, thanks.

Me too

Re: Apple to switch to Intel chips!

jjmac — Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:17 am

Author: jjmac

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:17 am

>>
Apple Computer's decision to dump IBM for its PowerPC chips in favor of Intel processors.
>>

Nope, haven't read the article yet ... but just wondering ... would they be customised processors specifically for apple. Or off the shelf. Locking out for a specific processor wouldn't be hard to do.

jm

Re: Apple to switch to Intel chips!

Rhakios — Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:40 pm

Author: Rhakios

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:40 pm

I already have one, thanks.

Re: Apple to switch to Intel chips!

sandyman — Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:56 pm

Author: sandyman

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:56 pm

Like I said, that will not happen due to hardware lock-in. Apparently it may be possible if people are prepared to write their own motherboard drivers etc. However if people start doing that sort of "crack" and trying to make it available I reckon that the result will be a lockout from the hardware manufacturers vis a vis the FOSS community.
if you want to run OS X buy a Mac

Re: Apple to switch to Intel chips!

Rhakios — Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:23 pm

Author: Rhakios

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:23 pm

Their license already forbids installing on non-Apple boxes (there are some non-Apple PPC desktops available), so I don't really see them changing either. But I bet a lot of people are going to have a go at getting OS X to run on their own hardware.

Re: Apple to switch to Intel chips!

sandyman — Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:53 pm

Author: sandyman

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:53 pm

If you check out online you will see that although it will be possible to install Windows or Linux on a "Mactel" box the converse will not be true. The lockout will be done through hardware and you can bet your a** that any manufacturer who aids in any "hacks" will get sued.

Again if you check out online the consensus is that if anything it is liable to hurt the move of Linux to the desktop more than Apple

Just my 2p

Re: Apple to switch to Intel chips!

Rhakios — Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:59 pm

Author: Rhakios

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:59 pm

I expect that, as is currently the case with modern Apple towers, graphics cards, hard drives and RAM will be upgradeable. The question is whether processors will be as well.

The other question is how great a range of hardware OS X for x86 will support. If they try to make it as promiscuous as possible then people are going to ignore the license and install it their own hardware, which will surely put a dent in Apple's hardware sales. Indeed, it will open them up to all the piracy problems that Microsoft currently have.

It should be interesting.

Re: Apple to switch to Intel chips!

alloydog — Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:43 pm

Author: alloydog

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:43 pm

The Linux issue aside, I think it will hurt Apple's image, because when they used M68xxxxx's and now PPC, they were Mac's and they were different. Once they start using Intel x86 architecured porcessors, they become just another PC, and at that, one with proprietry hardware designs, so regular off-the-shelf add-ons & upgrades will not be usable.

Re: Apple to switch to Intel chips!

Nigel — Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:24 pm

Author: Nigel

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:24 pm

Well I'll be darned... it's actually true this time

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jun/06intel.html

Re: Apple to switch to Intel chips!

guy — Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:43 pm

Author: guy

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:43 pm

They seem to be pretty strong rumours.
Some interesting reading at:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/06/apple_intel_analysis/

I think the poll is missing a couple of options:
* It'll make no real difference to Linux
* They can do what they want. We'll live with it.