Linux Format forums

Re: Why is installing software so awkward?

wyliecoyoteuk — Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:14 pm

Author: wyliecoyoteuk

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:14 pm

In Ubuntu, double-clicking on a .deb file will launch the package manager too.

Re: Why is installing software so awkward?

Bruno — Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:58 pm

Author: Bruno

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:58 pm

Pete wrote:

What are the distros that support one click install?

Hi Pete, for ease of installation, I can thoroughly recommend openSUSE. They have had one click installation for about 5 years. They have also revamped their web-based package search facility, see here. For example, search for the "amarok" music player and on the results page, click on the link to "Amarok". You will then be presented with an info page for the package and large button for direct installation of said package.

How it works is the build system used to make the distro automatically generates an xml file that will install the specified package from the repository that contains it, installing the repository if necessary, too. The large button is then linked to the xml file. The usual features of any package manager then kick in and any dependencies that are required are installed too. This approach gives the convenience of installation enjoyed by Windows users but maintains the security and integrity of software enjoyed by Linux users.

Packages can also be searched for in openSUSE's own package manager, YaST, as well as via the web.

In the rare situations that downloading packages directly from web pages is required (eg. installation of the skype client), the package file can just be clicked on in the file manager to start the installation process, again, the package manager fires up and takes care of it all.

For the more esoteric packages that are not directly supported by the distro but are built by the community, click on the spanner icon to the right of the "search" button on the package search web page and click the "Show unsupported packages" check box. This will help you find packages such as "arduino" built for openSUSE.

The xml files can also be placed on project web sites to afford their users easy installation of their software from one of openSUSE's repositories. If you'll forgive the vanity of a personal example, have a look at this page from the Arduino IDE installation guide for openSUSE.

Re: Why is installing software so awkward?

guy — Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:58 pm

Author: guy

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:58 pm

Pete wrote:

What are the distros that support one click install?

Windows, iOS, Symbian?

Seriously, lots of Linux distros do easy install from their own app repositories (debian and its derivatives such as Ubuntu and Mint are among the most comprehensive), but if your app isn't in there then life gets more complicated. That's just the way Linux is.

Historically I'd say it happened because two competing package formats - RedHat and Debian's - are too entrenched but too different to merge easily. So no universal solution has been able to emerge. I dare say Android isn't helping.

Re: Why is installing software so awkward?

nelz — Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:10 am

Author: nelz

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:10 am

Pete wrote:

Fair point, but I think my original point still holds people away from Linux operating systems that might otherwise happily use them. Whats MD5 checksum?

It verifies that a file has not been altered or corrupted, but that's not necessary for a user to understand. A package manager deals with this stuff, as well as making sure that all software comes from trusted sources. All you need to do it pick what you want and press the install button, which is what you want, isn't it?

Package managers do more than that, they also keep track of security and feature updates, saving you the trouble of checking with home pages or needing each program to phone home to check for updates.

Re: Why is installing software so awkward?

wyliecoyoteuk — Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:18 pm

Author: wyliecoyoteuk

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:18 pm

Another issue is that XBMC might rely on Codecs or files that are not freely distributable without payment.
i.e., free distros are legally forbidden to distribute them.
Windows includes codecs that MS have licensed.
This covers MP3, MP4, DVD, and others.

Re: Why is installing software so awkward?

wyliecoyoteuk — Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:09 pm

Author: wyliecoyoteuk

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:09 pm

Pete wrote:

Fair point, but I think my original point still holds people away from Linux operating systems that might otherwise happily use them. Whats MD5 checksum?

an MD5 checksum is a sort of signature that confirms the original file is unaltered.

Most Linux OSes offer repositories containing all the software that a user might need, along with a guarantee of compatibility and security.

Windows has one current version, Linux has thousands.
There is no guarantee that software compiled for RedHat will work with Ubuntu, for example.

So, if you leave the offered software repos, you must be aware that you are wandering into less safe territory.

If your chosen Distro does not support it, there is a reason.

Re: Why is installing software so awkward?

Pete — Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:01 pm

Author: Pete

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:01 pm

Fair point, but I think my original point still holds people away from Linux operating systems that might otherwise happily use them. Whats MD5 checksum?

Re: Why is installing software so awkward?

wyliecoyoteuk — Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:34 pm

Author: wyliecoyoteuk

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:34 pm

Pete wrote:

Yeah lots of people have said that, and I saw it on a mates xbox and was impressed. As to the who put the button there point, who tells you to go type certain lines of text into terminal to get certain software working? At some point surely there is a trust unless you want to compile the code from the start?

Pete

The thing is, the windows button allows someone else to install software, whatever.
The Linux repository system offers tested, trusted and signed apps, installable with one click.
Once you leave the repos, you are using 3rd party packages, and some are signed, but not all.The more work you have to do, the less likely it is that the software is stable and safe.
Always there is a trust issue, but most Linux downloads offer MD5 checksums, and you have to give your permission before they are installed.
I have lost track of the number of "free" windows packages I have had to extract from Windows PCs, along with the trialware, malware and trojans attached.

EDIT: At least when I look at a line of commands, I vaguely understand what they do.
If you don't, don't use them.

Re: Why is installing software so awkward?

Pete — Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:24 pm

Author: Pete

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:24 pm

Yeah lots of people have said that, and I saw it on a mates xbox and was impressed. As to the who put the button there point, who tells you to go type certain lines of text into terminal to get certain software working? At some point surely there is a trust unless you want to compile the code from the start?

Pete

Re: Why is installing software so awkward?

wyliecoyoteuk — Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:46 pm

Author: wyliecoyoteuk

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:46 pm

Pete wrote:

It was XBMC, but it looks like theres an OS where it runs as a front end anyway, but I had also noticed the same issue for other software previously where an expert would open up with "All you do is..." where I think the majority of people, myself included just want to press a button and let the computer do the hard work.

trouble with that is you don't always know who put that button there.

Quote:

It will be at least a few days before I'm ready to try the new aproach to my media centre but with a dedicated OS it might well solve my problem. I did try Mythbuntu but that just wasn't very pretty LOL

Mythbuntu has themes, and some of them are very pretty, the default is fairly basic, but that is because it is designed to run on the most hardware.
If you don't have a TV card, though, XBMC is probably a better bet.

Re: Why is installing software so awkward?

Pete — Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:38 pm

Author: Pete

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:38 pm

It was XBMC, but it looks like theres an OS where it runs as a front end anyway, but I had also noticed the same issue for other software previously where an expert would open up with "All you do is..." where I think the majority of people, myself included just want to press a button and let the computer do the hard work. It will be at least a few days before I'm ready to try the new aproach to my media centre but with a dedicated OS it might well solve my problem. I did try Mythbuntu but that just wasn't very pretty LOL

Re: Why is installing software so awkward?

Ram — Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:21 pm

Author: Ram

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:21 pm

What software are you trying to install by the way?

Re: Why is installing software so awkward?

Pete — Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:21 pm

Author: Pete

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:21 pm

Hey guys, thanks for the help. What are the distros that support one click install? Might be worth me looking. I understand about the malware risk but I'm not (I don't think) sugesting that the computer chooses what to download, just a simple piont and click install experience for the mainstream user. That said I have made a new friend quite away from the internet who has a linux set up similar to what I am trying to create and he has emailes me some handy stuff too. Keep up the good work, no doubt I'll be back next time I have a question or problem to solve.

Pete

Re: Why is installing software so awkward?

guy — Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:36 pm

Author: guy

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:36 pm

I do sympathise, and I have similar issues.
OK, synaptic rightly puts barriers in the way of downloading anything and everything. But if I finally track down what I want somewhere off-planet, say a printer driver on the website of the manufacturer's software associate, why can't I simply override those barriers with a mouse-click or two? At the moment I have to teach myself rocket science then build a sub-orbital sounder just to get my printer working.
The cognoscenti scoff that I am lucky I don't need to refine my own aluminium ore and build a full moon rocket, which actually would make me much happier. Humbug!

Re: Why is installing software so awkward?

johnhudson — Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:58 pm

Author: johnhudson

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:58 pm

It isn't in my experience., Virtually all the software I use is available through one-click install which takes a fraction of the time it takes the same Windows package to install.

Of the very few packages I have had to install from source, all have done so without any problems or have told me which missing dependences I needed to satisfy. They have also installed more quickly than it takes Windows to initialise the installation.

If you need easy installation, there are Linux distros that can meet your need.