Linux Format forums

Re: Java - A four letter word. :)

nicephotog — Tue May 08, 2012 7:48 am

Author: nicephotog

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:48 am

In hind-sight of all of that and reading over a few articles here and remembering the articles on LXF , i suppose it has never been actually relevent in someones view at LXF.

What may be relevent now is OpenJDK 7 open source java , but , i don't understand(either) why not since if this magazine ever focused on Java it would do so about programming "Jakarta Tomcat JSP/Servlet server"(A Java Apache server).

I wonder if LXF could see it clear to jumping past cgi-bin to Jakarta about the Tomcat, of bundled with many Linux distro flavours is an ordinary Apache http/https server.

I don't stretch myself as far as certificates and https but that finally for small business building scalable portable sites for trade is the final goal, with security and identity.

I'd say Perl/bash/PHP were more relevent , but the Jakarta Tomcat Apache Javaserver in the web server world is nothing to throw aside to another platform idea.

Interesting to mention it about LXF.(note: having used java for Linux it has its minor differences but is in no way stranded because it not in Windows, its the size and quality multi-national companys produce the stuff).

Re: Java - A four letter word. :)

External_Floppy — Tue May 08, 2012 12:48 am

Author: External_Floppy

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:48 am

Quote:

But in my humble, but informed opinion, Java's place for a Linux user is very much undermined by better performing more technically able languages, like C and C++...

If it were not so, there'd be a Java based operating system, maybe even the Linux Kernel ported to it Laughing but there's not, and so it has a limited place.

I totally understand that and respect you have programming knowledge way above mine (I'm an eternal noobie), but then surely if LXF only focused on the 'more technically able' languages then there wouldn't be an endless barrage of Python/PHP/MYSQL tutorials. Oh, and as far as I know the Linux Kernel isn't in Python either.

I was just curious as to why, in all my years of LFX reading, Java's never been touched upon? Regardless of its capabilities and limitations.

Re: Java - A four letter word. :)

nicephotog — Thu May 03, 2012 2:36 am

Author: nicephotog

Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:36 am

Opinionatively, any business with a responsibility to itself researches making money from any of its owned resources.No great crime for Sun or Oracle there.

From looking above and what i know of my Java programming, i can tell you a bit about why about java in it becoming or competing.

First "the internet" with java applets and their standardisation of intergrating to web pages in any browser.

Second the acceptance of Java to most major web browsers was given because the design criteria of the languages runtime binaries are to be coherent to a JRE specification accross platform/OS's.

Third, the diversity of libraries and extensibility by the fact it is an OOP language from the base of the machine all the way up.
e.g. javax.imageio.spi.ImageReaderSpi is a class that is an abstraction(common skeleton) for opening any image type if you want to build an image opener class from "raw image file" whether the image type and any compression formula exists or not.
It's an abstract class , so it has no actual implementation for any actual image type, just the parts to integrate it with the basic javax.imageio API to compatiblise any image into the java API.

At the bottom of the language are these bases, at the top of the language are "frameworks" for all types of appliance to the real world of computing.
In internet servers there is the "servlet" framework and JSP and JSF frameworks(of all are actually servlets).
"Java beans" which are applied across servers, desktop software and background programs. Java beans is a type of simplification of auditing and indexing functions available by what they call introspection and registration of software components with a software device(conceptually) called beans.
And showing that more properly MIDP(Mobile Information Device Profile) and CLDC(Connected Limited Device Configuration) and the KVM(Kilo Virtual Machine).

Its main tout in programming is not requiring to use pointers or to allocate memory(though it seriously helps if you comprehend C/C++/Fortran pointers), and write once run anywhere(not strictly true but close enough if you know enough about each platform OS).

It's not a surprise to find it expanded neither is retained a little as owned because of its usefulness.

Quote:

...thought that Oracle could only make money out of the mobile side of things, not the big stuff like SE and EE...

The web EE server side of things has SMS and WML server API's and SOA architecture and database classes just like the image example above.
Also you can hook into the servers binaries above at the container level not just the JSP "engine" level(a servlet)(above the JSP page, server servlet, or 'custom server web application').
That's the other end of the mobile system.
and they require paint and GUI API's which are there at all types of framework application.

Re: Java - A four letter word. :)

Rhakios — Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:14 pm

Author: Rhakios

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:14 pm

Xelous wrote:

George Patton, once described the British and Americas as:

"Two peoples separated by a common language"

And there was me thinking that George Bernard Shaw said it.

Re: Java - A four letter word. :)

Xelous — Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:06 pm

Author: Xelous

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:06 pm

George Patton, once described the British and Americas as:

"Two peoples separated by a common language"

Re: Java - A four letter word. :)

towy71 — Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:39 pm

Author: towy71

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:39 pm

I love the English language on little word two different meanings
1. open to discussion or debate; debatable; doubtful:
2. of little or no practical value or meaning; purely academic.

Cleave is another: join or separate

Re: Java - A four letter word. :)

Xelous — Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:32 pm

Author: Xelous

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:32 pm

What is this "American" of which you speak?

And I definitely wasn't making a reference to a ring gauge to measure toenails

Re: Birth of Java

towy71 — Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:08 pm

Author: towy71

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:08 pm

Xelous wrote:

Your point is well made, but rather moot....

Which meaning of moot are you using, American or English?

I won't say more as this has been mentioned in another thread on these forums

Birth of Java

Xelous — Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:58 pm

Author: Xelous

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:58 pm

Your point is well made, but rather moot, not because of Oracle owning Java, nor for the language itself not being of use in the world, but because... If you're running Linux, you're probably the calibre of computer user whom knows a little about programming and so you know that today there are more powerful languages (probably the languages you are using everyday) and Java is very much a secondary language for you.

This is my personal opinion of course, but I see it from a historical perspective, you see I was there, in line, outside the delivery suite as James Gosling was throwing the first edition of the Java language out there.

I was at University at the time, and had learned to program in Pascal (procedurally - I've recovered now thanks for asking), and the tutors, lecturers and even me myself got very excited about Java. Would it become the web defacto?... Would it become the only language, it does everything right, but has all these classes and libraries to utilise built in, and it handles memory clean ups for you freeing the programmer to be more creative and productive than C or C++... Right??!?!? Right?!?!?!

No, that's not how it went down, Java has its place, and that place is not really on my desktop, not on the desktop of anyone I know working in the software engineering game. I admit Java is useful, I actually do like to point people at it when they say "I want to learn how to program" rather than point them at C# (at least at the present). But in my humble, but informed opinion, Java's place for a Linux user is very much undermined by better performing more technically able languages, like C and C++...

If it were not so, there'd be a Java based operating system, maybe even the Linux Kernel ported to it but there's not, and so it has a limited place.

Perhaps LXF could cover it as a dedicated learning language segment, but they've already covered the basics of coding time and time again.

Xel

P.S. I also hate the code style James Gosling (and hence Java) is listed in, where's that curly brace?... Oh oh there it is

Re: Java - A four letter word. :)

External_Floppy — Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:46 am

Author: External_Floppy

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:46 am

Well yes, exactually!

It's the cross-platformabilty that I thought would make it an ideal vehicle for an LXF tutorial.

Re: Java - A four letter word. :)

lok1950 — Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:39 am

Author: lok1950

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:39 am

Java is not that unruly it's main utility is for mid-ware in enterprise IT which explains Oracle interest for in-house use with their DB customers custom apps.And it's cross-platform nature does make it very attractive for lots of other apps but OpenJDK would probably be a better bet for an article or tutorial especially it's differences from the Sun version.After all the mid-ware utility is the reason Red Hat developed IcedTea to work with their jboss app system.

Enjoy the Choice

Re: Java - A four letter word. :)

External_Floppy — Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:15 am

Author: External_Floppy

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:15 am

Hi guys,

Glad my thoughts on the 'openess' of Java have caused a little debate, getting people thinking and that....Good stuff!!

But, no-one's tackled my other 'thought':

Is Java the unruly step-child of programming? The one we don't mention!!?? Or is it still a valid language that's worth learning? (If so, why have LXF not covered it?)

Re: Java - A four letter word. :)

wyliecoyoteuk — Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:20 am

Author: wyliecoyoteuk

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:20 am

Yes, Most of Java is open, but not all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK

Re: Java - A four letter word. :)

lok1950 — Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:28 pm

Author: lok1950

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:28 pm

The only part of Sun that they wanted was Java look what has happened to all of the other projects that Sun supported Open Office and MYSQL they have found Virtual Box a convenient money maker as well,though most of us get the free version.

Enjoy the Choice

Re: Java - A four letter word. :)

PeterM — Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:19 pm

Author: PeterM

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:19 pm

D'you know, I think you're right. The only Java thing I can remember was a review of the book Head First Java. It may be quite nice to have a little Java Coding special.

Morning lok1950, I thought that Oracle could only make money out of the mobile side of things, not the big stuff like SE and EE. Or was only the test kit they could make money out of, just to get some JVM certified. I could be completely and hopelessly wrong on that mind you. It wouldn't be the first time I've been hopelessly wrong, just ask my wife and children. One day I may know who's who in Barbie movies