Linux Format forums

Re: Inexplicable dependencies?

ollie — Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:42 am

Author: ollie

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:42 am

pastychomper wrote:

On a completely unrelated note, why is it called uninstallation and not outstallation?

... or unstallation?

Re: Inexplicable dependencies?

pastychomper — Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:03 am

Author: pastychomper

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:03 am

roseway wrote:

The only explanation I have, improbable though it may sound, is that the gnome metapackages are built so as to deliver this two-way dependency issue, but the KDE metapackages aren't.

It's a deliberate feature of Gnome, designed to make uninstallation sufficiently painful that you won't even try to delete Mono when another package sneaks it in through the back door.

On a completely unrelated note, why is it called uninstallation and not outstallation?

Re: Inexplicable dependencies?

roseway — Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:03 am

Author: roseway

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:03 am

I can honestly say that in well over four years of using Debian on several different systems I've never experienced this issue. I often have occasion to remove metapackages, and it works just like I mentioned above. The only explanation I have, improbable though it may sound, is that the gnome metapackages are built so as to deliver this two-way dependency issue, but the KDE metapackages aren't.

Re: Inexplicable dependencies?

Dutch_Master — Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:07 pm

Author: Dutch_Master

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:07 pm

Exactly. Welcome to Debian... I have the same issue, but with the library responsible for blacking out the screen. If you try to remove it, Gnome is pretty much Gone&NO-MorE...

Re: Inexplicable dependencies?

Rhakios — Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:33 pm

Author: Rhakios

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:33 pm

Indeed, I think they've got the dependencies running both ways. I'll spare you the verbose output, but if I try to remove gnome-desktop-environment, then it says it'll need to remove gnome as well, and if I remove gnome then pretty much everything else gets called too. Ho hum.
Looks like I'll be leaving Apache in place, httpd isn't running, so it's not really doing anything worse than wasting a few megabytes of disk space. Still, it's slightly annoying.

Re: Inexplicable dependencies?

roseway — Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:37 pm

Author: roseway

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:37 pm

I'm beginning to think that this could be something to do with the way the gnome metapackages are constructed then. I use Debian Testing with KDE, so it's not directly comparable to your situation, but I can remove metapackages with none of the problems you've seen.

Code:

root@chaffinch:/home/eric# aptitude remove kde-standard
The following packages will be REMOVED:
kde-standard
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 41.0 kB will be freed.
(Reading database ... 178745 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing kde-standard ...

root@chaffinch:/home/eric#

As an afterthought, perhaps you might try removing the metapackages one at a time first:

aptitude remove gnome-desktop-environment

aptitude remove gnome

...

Re: Inexplicable dependencies?

Rhakios — Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:07 am

Author: Rhakios

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:07 am

Aptitude will have to be it, as I usually do maintenance by logging in from the machine I happen to be sitting at. I see it's already installed. Hmmm man pages.

Urk! Needs more work:

Code:

root@aglaia:/home/rhakios# aptitude remove apache2.2-bin
The following packages will be REMOVED:
apache2.2-bin
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 3,469 kB will be freed.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
gnome-user-share: Depends: apache2.2-bin but it is not going to be installed.
libapache2-mod-dnssd: Depends: apache2.2-bin but it is not going to be installed.
The following actions will resolve these dependencies:

Remove the following packages:
1) gnome
2) gnome-desktop-environment
3) gnome-user-share
4) libapache2-mod-dnssd

Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?] Y
The following packages will be REMOVED:
apache2.2-bin aptdaemon{u} baobab{u} binfmt-support{u} cheese{u} cheese-common{u} cli-common{u}
dnsmasq-base{u} ekiga{u} empathy{u} empathy-common{u} epiphany-extensions{u} evolution-exchange{u}
freeglut3{u} gcalctool{u} gconf-defaults-service{u} gconf-editor{u} gdebi{u} gdebi-core{u}
gedit-plugins{u} geoclue{u} geoclue-hostip{u} geoclue-localnet{u} geoclue-manual{u}
geoclue-yahoo{u} gnome{a} gnome-backgrounds{u} gnome-bluetooth{u} gnome-cards-data{u}
gnome-codec-install{u} gnome-desktop-environment{a} gnome-games{u} gnome-games-data{u}
gnome-games-extra-data{u} gnome-nettool{u} gnome-office{u} gnome-screenshot{u} gnome-search-tool{u}
gnome-system-log{u} gnome-system-tools{u} gnome-themes-extras{u} gnome-themes-more{u}
gnome-user-share{a} gnuchess{u} gnuchess-book{u} gstreamer0.10-nice{u} gstreamer0.10-tools{u}
gtk2-engines-smooth{u} gucharmap{u} guile-1.8-libs{u} gvfs-bin{u} hamster-applet{u}
libapache2-mod-dnssd{a} libapr1{u} libaprutil1{u} libaprutil1-dbd-sqlite3{u} libaprutil1-ldap{u}
libart2.0-cil{u} libchamplain-0.4-0{u} libchamplain-gtk-0.4-0{u} libcheese-gtk18{u}
libclutter-gtk-0.10-0{u} libcryptui0{u} libdiscid0{u} libfreerdp-plugins-standard{u} libfreerdp0{u}
libgconf2.0-cil{u} libgee2{u} libgeoclue0{u} libgexiv2-0{u} libglade2.0-cil{u} libglib2.0-cil{u}
libgmime2.4-cil{u} libgnome-bluetooth7{u} libgnome-vfs2.0-cil{u} libgnome2.24-cil{u}
libgnomepanel2.24-cil{u} libgpod-common{u} libgpod4{u} libgssdp-1.0-2{u} libgstfarsight0.10-0{u}
libgtk2.0-cil{u} libgupnp-1.0-3{u} libgupnp-igd-1.0-3{u} libmono-addins-gui0.2-cil{u}
libmono-addins0.2-cil{u} libmono-cairo2.0-cil{u} libmono-corlib2.0-cil{u}
libmono-i18n-west2.0-cil{u} libmono-posix2.0-cil{u} libmono-security2.0-cil{u}
libmono-sharpzip2.84-cil{u} libmono-system2.0-cil{u} libmtp8{u} libmusicbrainz3-6{u}
libndesk-dbus-glib1.0-cil{u} libndesk-dbus1.0-cil{u} libnet1{u} libnice0{u} libnm-glib-vpn1{u}
libnm-glib2{u} libnm-util1{u} libopal3.6.8{u} libopenobex1{u} libpcap0.8{u} libpt2.6.7{u}
libspeexdsp1{u} libsrtp0{u} libssh-4{u} libtelepathy-farsight0{u} libtelepathy-glib0{u} liferea{u}
liferea-data{u} media-player-info{u} mesa-utils{u} mobile-broadband-provider-info{u}
modemmanager{u} mono-2.0-gac{u} mono-gac{u} mono-runtime{u} nautilus-sendto{u}
nautilus-sendto-empathy{u} network-manager{u} network-manager-gnome{u} obex-data-server{u}
obexd-client{u} pkg-config{u} ppp{u} python-aptdaemon{u} python-aptdaemon-gtk{u} python-bugbuddy{u}
python-evolution{u} python-gtkglext1{u} python-mako{u} python-markupsafe{u} python-opengl{u}
python-vte{u} python-webkit{u} remmina{u} remmina-plugin-data{u} remmina-plugin-rdp{u}
remmina-plugin-vnc{u} rhythmbox{u} rhythmbox-plugin-cdrecorder{u} rhythmbox-plugins{u} seahorse{u}
seahorse-plugins{u} shotwell{u} simple-scan{u} software-center{u} sound-juicer{u} tcl{u} tcl8.4{u}
tcptraceroute{u} telepathy-gabble{u} telepathy-mission-control-5{u} telepathy-salut{u} tomboy{u}
totem-mozilla{u} transmission-common{u} transmission-gtk{u} update-manager-core{u}
update-manager-gnome{u} update-notifier{u} update-notifier-common{u} usb-modeswitch{u}
usb-modeswitch-data{u} vino{u} xdg-user-dirs{u} xdg-user-dirs-gtk{u}
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 170 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 371 MB will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]

I think that's an "n" then.

Re: Inexplicable dependencies?

roseway — Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:38 am

Author: roseway

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:38 am

Yes, Apache is a dependency of gnome-user-share.

Presumably the autoremove list is in effect all the dependencies of the two metapackages which are being deleted. It might be argued that Debian's apt-get is being quite smart in offering to treat the metapackages this way.

Two suggestions:

1. Install synaptic and use that for package installation and removal. Its defaults are more benign in instances like this - you can delete a metapackage without any alarms.

2. Use aptitude instead of apt-get. Squeeze was released at the time when Debian was in a bit of a changeover state, but now with Testing, aptitude has become the preferred package management utility. Its algorithms are a bit different and rather more subtle.

Re: Inexplicable dependencies?

Rhakios — Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:52 pm

Author: Rhakios

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:52 pm

From what I've read, I suspect Apache is needed for gnome-user-share, then this is listed by one of the metapackages. But still, I don't see why uninstalling metapackages should render the other packages as unrequired, that seems arse-about-face to me. It obviously isn't essential to do it this way as Ubuntu 10.04 doesn't.

Re: Inexplicable dependencies?

roseway — Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:00 pm

Author: roseway

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:00 pm

The packages gnome and gnome-desktop-environment are metapackages, i.e. packages containing no code but just a list of dependencies. They are used by Debian to simplify the installation of a related group of packages. You can safely remove them with no effect on your system. I don't know why Apache is a dependency of gnome, but you can certainly uninstall it with no issues.

I'm not sure about that long autoremove list, but if you type

aptitude keep-all

it should deal with that situation.

Inexplicable dependencies?

Rhakios — Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:39 pm

Author: Rhakios

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:39 pm

I have just been updating my Debian Squeeze box and noticed that it wanted to update apache2.2-bin. I can't think of any reason why I need apache on that box, it's not used as an http server, so I go to remove it...

Code:

...
The following packages will be REMOVED:
apache2.2-bin gnome gnome-desktop-environment gnome-user-share libapache2-mod-dnssd
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 5 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
...

What?! Why on Earth is Gnome in any way dependent on Apache, or vice versa? It seems to me that it might have something to do with user sharing? But really, my Ubuntu box doesn't need Apache installed in any way.
I might point out that Debian also suggests this little list should be removed using apt-get autoremove...

Code:

The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
libmono-addins-gui0.2-cil mono-2.0-gac geoclue-localnet mesa-utils geoclue tomboy ekiga python-opengl
libmtp8 libnm-glib-vpn1 gcalctool telepathy-salut gnuchess-book gnome-nettool gnome-games-extra-data
libgnomepanel2.24-cil libglade2.0-cil baobab libtelepathy-glib0 python-mako pkg-config
mobile-broadband-provider-info libglib2.0-cil obex-data-server libsrtp0 tcptraceroute gucharmap
network-manager libdiscid0 gnome-games cheese gdebi evolution-exchange libgconf2.0-cil gnome-bluetooth
libaprutil1-dbd-sqlite3 python-aptdaemon-gtk update-manager-core gnome-codec-install python-aptdaemon
gnome-cards-data liferea-data cli-common gnome-themes-more rhythmbox libgstfarsight0.10-0
gnome-screenshot libnm-util1 xdg-user-dirs-gtk libgexiv2-0 gnome-office update-manager-gnome
cheese-common python-gtkglext1 libpcap0.8 libart2.0-cil epiphany-extensions libapr1
update-notifier-common seahorse remmina-plugin-rdp empathy gdebi-core libaprutil1-ldap gvfs-bin
update-notifier libgnome2.24-cil libndesk-dbus1.0-cil seahorse-plugins libgpod4 libgeoclue0
remmina-plugin-vnc xdg-user-dirs libmono-cairo2.0-cil nautilus-sendto-empathy gedit-plugins
libtelepathy-farsight0 network-manager-gnome libgnome-bluetooth7 gconf-defaults-service guile-1.8-libs
shotwell dnsmasq-base gnome-themes-extras libgmime2.4-cil software-center libopal3.6.8
libmono-i18n-west2.0-cil libgssdp-1.0-2 libcryptui0 simple-scan libmono-addins0.2-cil
remmina-plugin-data python-markupsafe libgee2 python-webkit libmono-posix2.0-cil
rhythmbox-plugin-cdrecorder libmono-security2.0-cil gtk2-engines-smooth gnome-backgrounds obexd-client
gnome-search-tool libgtk2.0-cil geoclue-manual mono-gac python-vte libnm-glib2
libfreerdp-plugins-standard geoclue-hostip vino aptdaemon usb-modeswitch-data gnome-games-data
media-player-info telepathy-mission-control-5 ppp libclutter-gtk-0.10-0 tcl telepathy-gabble
libmono-sharpzip2.84-cil usb-modeswitch libmono-corlib2.0-cil libgpod-common rhythmbox-plugins
libchamplain-0.4-0 tcl8.4 libchamplain-gtk-0.4-0 gstreamer0.10-nice python-bugbuddy mono-runtime
liferea libpt2.6.7 libgupnp-1.0-3 libcheese-gtk18 python-evolution libndesk-dbus-glib1.0-cil
gconf-editor gnome-system-tools hamster-applet gnuchess libfreerdp0 libnice0 binfmt-support libssh-4
libgnome-vfs2.0-cil transmission-common libaprutil1 geoclue-yahoo libnet1 gstreamer0.10-tools
freeglut3 modemmanager totem-mozilla libgupnp-igd-1.0-3 libmono-system2.0-cil gnome-system-log
libopenobex1 libspeexdsp1 nautilus-sendto transmission-gtk remmina empathy-common sound-juicer
libmusicbrainz3-6
Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.

Very likely.